The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 137

Thread: Big D...120 Master limit Full in less than 10 min,

  1. #51
    Senior Member Jeannie Greenlee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    O'Fallon, MO
    Posts
    595

    Default

    Just a couple of quick thoughts then I'll go back into hibernation. I cannot help but believe that somewhere in Atlanta in a conference room is a man with a smile on his face saying "told you so". The solution to the fairness question could be for the opening date and time to be published to all in advance of electronic registration ... just my buck minus 98 cents worth... Now back to hibernation...
    Hmmmm....That's what Jerry Mann said to me when I talked to him about this subject.
    Jeannie Greenlee

    Blazinlakes Legally Blonde CDX JH NAJ RA WC OD (1st Retriever)
    HRCH Smokingold Guns Up CCA WCX CD MH
    https://sites.google.com/site/smokingoldretrievers/home

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Linden, VA
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djansma View Post
    this is taking the little guy right out of AKC hunt tests and wasn't it created for the little guy?
    David Jansma
    This is the reason I am now looking for a FT prospect pup now. I will finish my current dogs SH, but after that ya all can have this HT stuff. I'm not going to deal with all the you need to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy to let you know when a Hunt Test MH event entry opens up on entry express.
    Southland Dixe's Hunter Boy, JH (Hunter)
    Triple J's Hotta Habanera Mo Betta, (Mo)
    Freezeland's Carbon Squared, (CC)

  3. #53
    Senior Member waycool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Observations from a person only experienced pointing dog games (they only wish they had these kind of turnouts):

    1. Why on earth would your Parent Club pollute a "Standard" (pass/fail) title with "Competition" (i.e. MN qualifying) ?
    a. If you want "more" than a MH then FT should be the next place to compete..
    2. I agree with Bruce ! If you are going to use electronic entries.. THEN you should publish Open/Close entry dates ahead of time (like when AKC approves the test)
    a. This eliminates the "someone knew in advance" conspiracies (which are probably true fwiw)

    Finally just some random thoughts and I'll go away...

    First you all (Retriever enthusiasts) do realize this is a consequence of what is effectively a GREAT success ? I mean I'm looking at these tests (difficulty) and FT's and the dogs are virtually impeccable ! When so that many dogs have that degree of natural ability, trainability and expert handling things become very difficult to differentiate. So you must either make the standards more difficult (now it becomes totally a GAME) or become very nit picky (technical term for negative) with the judging...

    Point being is the success of breeding, training methods and dedicated folks like those on this board that really should take a bow ! This is a product of your success !

    So my .02 is that MN should be something different to qualify .. some other stake/test not the traditional test... or maybe.. just move on over to FTs ? Seems redundant to me....

    Obviously on all sides there should be some limitation on number of dogs per handler... Ted and EdA 's proposal looks very reasonable IMO

    Best,
    Steve Lithgow
    Las Cruces, NM
    "The thing that makes them good... is the thing that makes them bad" ~Pete Richardson Marble Mtn Walkers, Vermont
    "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.... " ~Ron Schaitel
    "What's the difference between a pro and an amateur..... ""About a tenth of a second"" ~Bill Gibbons
    "Ugh... my dog broke....! ""There's never been one worth a flip that hasn't"" ~John Steger

  4. #54
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Falcon, CO
    Posts
    9,136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Wegner View Post
    Not only should the opening date and time be posted in the premium, in advance, but EE should control the opening, not particular club members.
    Just a note on this, my event and judge's panel has been "pending" since the 7th of this month, this was after all my judge's jumped through all their hoops. I've even sent an email to the AKC asking why my event has not been approved, to no reply as of yet. I haven't called yet, but plan to. So putting a "opening date" is not really practical. Anyone who wants to argue that can take over the HTS duties from me! And as I've stated before, as the HTS for my club, I do plan to let the membership know when I will be opening the event, which will be in the evening so they can enter after work. Hopefully all the members will listen to my advice of entering as soon as it opens if they think they want to run Master.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Wegner View Post
    In addition, any club that chooses to limit entries should have to forfeit the 200 mile limit for competing events. Afterall, they are effectively saying they cannot accommodate any more than 60 or 120 entries. Perhaps allowing neighboring clubs some of the action would benefit all involved.
    I don't know if I totally agree with this, I do on principle, but how do we know as a club that we will max out? It could hurt the club who has to limit numbers due to grounds.
    "You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.

    Proudly Owned By:
    MHR HR Flash Of Mischief SH CD CGC - Flash (10/15/98 - 10/8/12)
    Lightning Fast Quack Attacker*** - Bullet
    Gotta Heart Of A Warrior - Ranger (12/26/07 - 8/10/2010)
    SML's Gettin' Sexy With It*** - Tango
    FOM's Raising a Ruckus in the Rockies - Riot

  5. #55
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,232

    Default

    If there are bots being used, removing them would be the first order of business. Then, it seems like the simplest thing to do would be to set a standardized time for tests to open on EE. For example, a test would have to open on EE at 8AM on the Monday that is 6 weeks before the test, or some such. That way, if you know the test date, then you know when to be ready to enter. If that doesn't help, then I think you have to start limiting daily registrations or something like that to fix the problem.

    I don't really want to get into the pro vs. amateur debate except for this: it has been said that tests need the pro entries to fill them up. I haven't yet competed in any master events, so my question would be whether that was actually true, particularly in the southeastern part of the country. Does anybody have any empirical evidence one way or the other? The anecdotal evidence from this thread seems to suggest there are a lot of amateurs out there who would like to run their dogs but can't get into the tests, at least in some places. I live about an hour from the Cattle Ranch, so it is hard for me to envision limited grounds after dealing with that embarrassment of riches.

    I commend clipper for working the test even though he couldn't even enter his own club's test, but I wonder how long that will last.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacduck View Post
    A talk I listened into the other day says pros have some else do their entries. My guess that someone else is a geek who runs a bot. The only way I can see an event filling in such short times as we are seeing is a bot.

    My solution?

    #1Bot prevention is those funny squiggly characters you have to decipher and enter before you go on to the next step in the order or whatever.

    #2Then an open time and date listed 3 days before opening.

    T said "First 24 hours after opening ... entry restricted to untitled dogs (not yet MH). Next 24 hours ... entry restricted to dogs not yet qualified for MN. Unrestricted after that."

    I like his idea there.

    The other thought I liked was only 1 entry by same handler per day. That could fail but could be blocked by only listing one handler per dog, not owner, co owner, pro like some do.
    Last edited by RookieTrainer; 02-18-2014 at 11:55 AM.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  6. #56
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    N. Cackalacky
    Posts
    2,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freezeland View Post
    This is the reason I am now looking for a FT prospect pup now. I will finish my current dogs SH, but after that ya all can have this HT stuff. I'm not going to deal with all the you need to know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy to let you know when a Hunt Test MH event entry opens up on entry express.
    Better get a tin foil hat. If you believe in conspiracies, you will love the FT gallery

  7. #57
    Senior Member shawninthesticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    north east mo
    Posts
    1,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    If there are bots being used, removing them would be the first order of business. Then, it seems like the simplest thing to do would be to set a standardized time for tests to open on EE. For example, a test would have to open on EE at 8AM on the Monday that is 6 weeks before the test, or some such. That way, if you know the test date, then you know when to be ready to enter. If that doesn't help, then I think you have to start limiting daily registrations or something like that to fix the problem.

    I don't really want to get into the pro vs. amateur debate except for this: it has been said that tests need the pro entries to fill them up. I haven't yet competed in any master events, so my question would be whether that was actually true, particularly in the southeastern part of the country. Does anybody have any empirical evidence one way or the other? The anecdotal evidence from this thread seems to suggest there are a lot of amateurs out there who would like to run their dogs but can't get into the tests, at least in some places. I live about an hour from the Cattle Ranch, so it is hard for me to envision limited grounds after dealing with that embarrassment of riches.

    I commend clipper for working the test even though he couldn't even enter his own club's test, but I wonder how long that will last.
    Bolded by me.

    I'd think it is a per test basis (mainly the traveling circuit as they all want 60 degree or more water). In post #20 I think it would make it equal for the AM's and ensure full tests for the clubs. Without everyone having to revisit EE once per day to enter multiple dogs.
    Shawn White

    HR Big Creek Retrievers Independence Day JH QAA "Indy "

  8. #58
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    nowhere Alabama
    Posts
    1,428

    Default

    These solutions all fix a problem that doesn't exist unless clubs limit entries. Clubs limit entries for two main reasons. #1 lack of grounds. #2 lack of help. Most of us don't have 2-3 hundred acres groomed for retriever events so we can't help this. Most of us can call the club president or hunt test chair & volunteer to work. I doubt a single person is turned down.
    Mark Land

  9. #59
    Senior Member Dan Wegner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    Just a note on this, my event and judge's panel has been "pending" since the 7th of this month, this was after all my judge's jumped through all their hoops. I've even sent an email to the AKC asking why my event has not been approved, to no reply as of yet. I haven't called yet, but plan to. So putting a "opening date" is not really practical.
    You're right Lainee, I've been there and done that too. Judge, Secretary, Committee, Event Chair, live gunner, thrower, blind planter, marshall, coordinator, worker bee, etc. Sometimes AKC can take forever to approve the judging panel and the event, however, once the Secretary is notified that it is approved, I feel they could update the premium to say when etries will be opened and give folks a few days to a week to find out, before opening the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    I don't know if I totally agree with this, I do on principle, but how do we know as a club that we will max out? It could hurt the club who has to limit numbers due to grounds.
    Clubs voted for the option to limit Master entries to ensure they wouldn't be overburdened, beyond the capacity of the available grounds or labor. Okay, understood and the limits are doing what they were intended to do. However, if a club chooses to limit the entries, they are saying that they believe there's a chance they would go beyond that limit number.

    However, if a club chooses that "protection", I think it's only fair to the hunt test participant community that other clubs be able to host events the same weekend within the 200 mile radius. That way if the limited test fills, there might be another local option for those who didn't get into the closed test.

    Your argument is that the club with the limited test may not max out. I don't think that was the intent of the rule. It was a protection against exceeding a maximum number of entries, not a guarantee of a minimum number of entries. Clubs shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it too, at the expense of the hunt test community, as is happening now. Today, there is no consequence for a club making the decision to limit entries, under this proposal, they would have to seriously consider whether they really need the limits or not. I think we might see a few more clubs decide to not limit, if there was the threat of losing entries to a competing club.
    FCR "Ransom" - Coastalight Toodoggone Much CD MH *** (2012 MN Qualifier and All-Age pointed!)
    FCR "Legend" - Ryvertowns More Than A Memory CD *** (QAA and 2011 FCRSA Field Trial Trophy Winner)
    LAB "Traitor" - All Out Gone to The Dark Side (QAA and Nat'l Derby List)

  10. #60
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Richardson, TX
    Posts
    7

    Default

    At least one of the non pros that got in was the landowner. That was nice of them.

    I wonder what the going rate is for insider information?

    I think if the test is limited then there should be a limit on the number of dogs one handler can enter.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •