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Big D...120 Master limit Full in less than 10 min,

29K views 136 replies 72 participants last post by  Todd Caswell 
#1 · (Edited)
Wow....I think it has officially reached insane status.

my trainer called me to enter my dog, and I was online that minute.

got the master entry selected, and submitted my payment info, and got a red box saying that the test filled while I was putting my stuff in.

i heard thru the grapevine that someone that got dogs in said it filled in 8 minutes.

This is my first master dog....wondering if this is going to be disappointments like this over and over
 
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#95 ·
Robert, I am with you on this. I will go throw birds and move equipment for the HRC'ers.

Hambone, see you out there in HRC events, that's if you make it West and I East. I am with you on this statement! I will try to get in some AKC events this year, I am judging two events now but the door is closing. If the HRC wants me, I will attend a judges seminar there and probably be HRC exclusive. We'll see how this year goes.
 
#96 ·
I hope AKC comes up with an answer. Till last fall I had no problem getting into any test I wanted to enter. Now I can't get in to an AKC test. I am going back to my roots. I started this game in 1976 with HRC. Today I dropped my UKC registration in the mail and paid my HRC dues. Entered two HRC tests with no problems. HRC restricts entries to 5 dogs per person max. I will stay with my local AKC club and help out with our test but if things don't change and I can't get in a test . . . well what's the point. This is my main hobby and I train almost every day so I can run my dogs in HT. If I can't get in AKC tests I will have to go where I can get in. No animosity; just the way things are.
 
#101 ·
Did you mean 1986? HRC didn't start until '84
 
#97 ·
How about this the first 2 days only a owner can enter but also has to be the handler and open the test after 6:30 pm so most am's are home and also don't open it up until on month before the event
so we don't have to pay for a whole season of tests in a month
David Jansma
 
#99 ·
Back in 2003 I sat in at a Master National meeting as a delegate for my retriever club. They spent a good part of the meeting discussing ways to limit the entries to the Master National - regionals, special hunt tests for qualifying, etc., etc. That year there were around 300 dogs running in the Master National. No significant action was taken except they eventually increased the number of masters to qualify and the entries for the MN now run somewhere between 600 to 700! The sport that started out as a fun thing for the amateur to do with their dog on the weekend has become something entirely different.
 
#102 ·
It's equally frustrating as a pro/owner not to be able to get entries in...right now, only have two client dogs ready for Master. But, we have several young dogs (personally) that we planned to run in MH in the future.
 
#103 · (Edited)
The main reason that I would be in favor of allowing a HTC to have the "Option" to hold an Amateur Owner Handler event is because it would allow the dogs from southern states to be entered in tests while they are still in their area. After the early spring events, the dogs are not as concentrated in one region and the option would, in most cases, no longer be necessary.

I would prefer that the option only be available with approval of the AKC to prevent its abuse.


J.O.
 
#105 ·
So in fact I was wrong with my thought about a bot. It seems EE is the culprit here.

So in all fairness entry opening should be posted for all to see and one dog with one of those squiggly characters thingys be attached to all entries. Snooze and you lose including pros.

Just not fair to the rest of us.
 
#107 ·
One simple fix. No mass entries, could be fixed today. Owner/handler designation again a simple computer change.
Retriever News should be ashamed.
 
#115 ·
Bingo place the blame where it should lie! Not pros, not limits, it is the system......
 
#108 · (Edited)
limiman - coulda been '86, heck that was a long time ago! :confused:

And one upcoming HRC test I entered or was looking to enter stated a limit of 5 dogs max per person. Based on that, I thought 5 was HRC's max entry but I haven't run a HRC test for about 10 years now.
 
#112 ·
Ted -

In your example of limiting the stake to 65 dogs, what happens if, in the first round of 5 entries per handler, there are a total 90 dogs entered.

This would defeat the idea of limiting the stake due to a shortage of resources ... the whole reason for the current situation. If the club is going to limit entries, the initial entry number for each handler should be 1-2 I would think. If they are not going to limit entries, then there's no "per handler" limit at all.

It's interesting that when I started in 1990, we had a limit on each level (MH was about 20 as I recall) and the same problems existed then as now. One club in Florida was known for reaching the limit before they opened as all the club members knew in advance of the entry date and would phone in an entry before the opening and then follow by the form and check later. Unlimited entry was supposed to solve that.
 
#114 ·

Eric

Ed and I designed this system for Field Trials. You would need to tweak it for Hunt Tests.

At the time of the proposal, there were many FT where the Open was 100+ dogs, with multiple pro trucks of 15+ dogs or more. In addition, the Rules required that if you had an Open with 65 starters, the next year you needed to have a Limited, and if with a Limited, you had 65 starters, you needed to have a Special (those rules were not enforced by the AKC). So we used 65 as starting number, given the existing framework.

We looked at entries and thought that a limit of 5 dogs per handler would work. You could chose a smaller number if you felt it was necessary (say three)

We wanted to:
a) Equalize competition in the Open by limiting entries per handler (think salary cap in the NFL, which allows Green Bay to compete with New York)
b) Get entries down to a manageable size.

Our proposal never made it to the floor for discussion, as the leaders of the RAC at the time vehemently opposed it.

In the FT world, the RAC recently discussed limiting the number of dogs per handler in the Amateur to 3 or 4, for many of the same reasons. That discussion, which was public and addressed at the two most recent Nationals, did not find much public support and has died on the vine.

In the time since Ed and I made our proposal:
1. More conflicting trials emerged (reducing the number of 100+ dog Opens)
2. The PRTA and more pros began putting on trials
3. The economy reduced the number of dogs on many pro trucks

As a result, I see little likelihood that the proposal that Ed and I made will ever re-surface. But, I do believe that the structure could be tweaked to address the current issue in Hunt Tests.
 
#128 ·
bruce - when I said there weren't enough weekends, I was more referring to me not having enough weekends! Between FTs, HTs, other hobbies, big game hunting, work and life in general....boy my weekends are pretty much taken up! I'd run more HTs if I had more time...I was some what smart this year and only accepted judging assignments during times that would not interfere with me running my knucklehead! Heck he only needs one more Master pass...good thing I'm the HTS I'll be able to enter him immediately after I open the event! hahahahaha talk about an advantage! ;) That's about the only benefit for being the HTS!
 
#129 ·
I have to support FOM here. In 10+ years in HTs in CO I have never seen a pro or client toss a few birds or help with equipment. I can say the same for tests I have ran in NM, NE and SD. I've been Chair, Equipment guy, Bird Flunky, Popper Station Grunt and so on. It's always the same handful for each club. Shoot, I 've been yelled at by FOM before so if you are at her test, you better me moving something or planning to move something or else....:D
 
#130 ·
Joe - And you loved every single minute of it.....weeeeeee weeeeee weeeeee :)
 
#131 ·
That cracks me up, my master in training dog did that today to me in training!!!! WEEEEE Weeeee weeee.
 
#132 ·
I will say this, a certain pro took time out when she could be running her clients dogs and judged a JR and Sr. Kudos to her, and I have a lot of respect for her for that. No beef against Rody but I have never seen a pro supply bird boys and such in HT's since 2004. Could have happened here but I haven't seen it. Alabama must be special.
But to to get back to the issue. There is no good reason for someone to work a test when they can't enter their dog. If you think my dog is going to sit in the dog box and not be able to run while I work a test? When it's eligible to run. Don't think so.
 
#133 ·
There is no good reason for someone to work a test when they can't enter their dog. If you think my dog is going to sit in the dog box and not be able to run while I work a test? When it's eligible to run. Don't think so.
That is an interesting perspective, that folks seem to share. If that is the case, why be a member of a club? What is the purpose of the clubs? If all the club offers is the chance to work the HT, why would you send in your $25 to be a member? It doesn't sound like a very good value proposition since you can run the HT and work the HT without being a member. I think that is an important issue that gets lost in all of this.
 
#134 ·
In your first HT, there were probably only 2 entries and Noah was the judge.
Followed that Ark around for months. Water series was no problem if ya catch my drift. Had to use Dokkens cause there were only two live ducks and they were on the ark. No live flyers. Finally had to cancel the test cause there was no place to run the land series. And don't be givin' me no crap about how that couldn't happen cause there was no HRC before 82! By God I was there and I did it you whippersnapper!
 
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