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Thread: SH vs MH

  1. #21
    Senior Member runnindawgz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    participate in multiple dog sports....so MH has to wait a while....
    X2 ... money & time spread in some minor stakes, obedience, and agility and ... between multiple dogs entree fee money and hours in a week don’t grow on trees! I WISH
    Danielle R. Pellicci
    http://www.blackFootkennels.com
    Home of:
    SPICE, MH (11) CD (GN1) RA OA NAJ
    (FC AFC “Cori” X Malli QAA)
    FEATHER, MH QAA
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X “Spice” MH CD RA OA NAJ)
    PENNY, CD BN RN SH
    (FC AFC CAFC “Copper” X “Faith” MH QA2)
    CAPPY
    (2XNAFC FC AFC HOF “Ram” X “Cree”)
    HALO
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X“Spice” MH CD RA OA NAJ)
    TORCH
    (HRCH “Ticket” MH X“Penny” CD BN RN SH)
    &
    RIP: Rhumbline’s Guinness is Good, JH... Miss you every day "Big Man"

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    MH is hard for an inexperienced handler, MH is hard for an inexperienced dog. A lot of people can handle SH and not understand the delicacies of MH, the dog might have the skill, the handler doesn't or doesn't know how to enforce the harder requirements. How I look at it, a smart dog can get through SH, with a low level handler; it's more instinctual, lines to blinds are straight forward. Once you get to MH a dog can't luck through on it's own talent, and an inexperience dog will need the handler to get them through. An inexperienced handler just might need an experienced dog to save the team. Heck sometimes very experienced dog will need a very experienced handler to make it through the test and you might not have a ribbon at the end of it. Master level is where it really becomes a team-sport, there's a lot of technical stuff that goes against k-9 thinking, (it's not just one more mark, and the same blinds) The dog must be lined up correctly, the dog must take certain lines to marks, birds must sometimes be picked up in particular order, blinds must be challenged. You really need to be able to read your dog, You need to be able to read the test; and you need a dog that is obedient, (will sit on a whistle, will take your casts), will take as many cast and whistles you need to give (some dogs only have a certain # of whistles in them before they free-lance). Most dogs can do the marks, it's the blinds and control that takes them out, interestingly it's the blinds and control that dogs need a handler for. An inexperienced dog and a nervous newbie handler; is pretty much a recipe for disaster. You don't know enough to help your dog, you don't know enough to keep them out of trouble, heck sometimes you don't even remember being if you went up to line at all . The only way around it is too get experience, I had to finally start entering my friends old experienced MH 42+++ dogs so I could get handler experience; about the time I was able to pass the experienced dogs consistently, my dog had obtained enough MH experience that she could get us through tests, despite or inspite of me. Once you or your dogs learns to handle a master test; it pretty much becomes standard, but when both you and your dog are trying to learn and neither of you has any experience to fall back on, watch out; this is where passing out on the line becomes an issue .

    Thus the issue why we see many SH and not many continuing on is it is hard work to get both team-mates on the same page, and oftentimes requires many failures and a bunch of investment before you can succeed, a lot of people don't have the time, the skill to do it, nor inclination to keep at it,Going out on the first bird or never seeing a water series, for mulitple tests; and you start asking yourself "Why am I doing this again?".
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-18-2014 at 06:20 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Leslie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce MacPherson View Post
    The mechanics are the same but difficulty level goes up exponentially, some can handle it some can't.
    Are we talking about the dog or the handler?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bruce MacPherson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie B View Post
    Are we talking about the dog or the handler?
    That would be both in my experience.
    "The longer you let a dog go in the wrong direction the more they think they are going in the right direction" Don Remien.

  5. #25
    Senior Member weathered's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    MH is hard for an inexperienced handler, MH is hard for an inexperienced dog. A lot of people can handle SH and not understand the delicacies of MH, the dog might have the skill, the handler doesn't or doesn't know how to enforce the harder requirements. How I look at it, a smart dog can get through SH, with a low level handler; it's more instinctual, lines to blinds are straight forward. Once you get to MH a dog can't luck through on it's own talent, and an inexperience dog will need the handler to get them through. An inexperienced handler just might need an experienced dog to save the team. Heck sometimes very experienced dog will need a very experienced handler to make it through the test and you might not have a ribbon at the end of it. Master level is where it really becomes a team-sport, there's a lot of technical stuff that goes against k-9 thinking, (it's not just one more mark, and the same blinds) The dog must be lined up correctly, the dog must take certain lines to marks, birds must sometimes be picked up in particular order, blinds must be challenged. You really need to be able to read your dog, You need to be able to read the test; and you need a dog that is obedient, (will sit on a whistle, will take your casts), will take as many cast and whistles you need to give (some dogs only have a certain # of whistles in them before they free-lance). Most dogs can do the marks, it's the blinds and control that takes them out, interestingly it's the blinds and control that dogs need a handler for. An inexperienced dog and a nervous newbie handler; is pretty much a recipe for disaster. You don't know enough to help your dog, you don't know enough to keep them out of trouble, heck sometimes you don't even remember being if you went up to line at all . The only way around it is too get experience, I had to finally start entering my friends old experienced MH 42+++ dogs so I could get handler experience; about the time I was able to pass the experienced dogs consistently, my dog had obtained enough MH experience that she could get us through tests, despite or inspite of me. Once you or your dogs learns to handle a master test; it pretty much becomes standard, but when both you and your dog are trying to learn and neither of you has any experience to fall back on, watch out; this is where passing out on the line becomes an issue .

    Thus the issue why we see many SH and not many continuing on is it is hard work to get both team-mates on the same page, and oftentimes requires many failures and a bunch of investment before you can succeed, a lot of people don't have the time, the skill to do it, nor inclination to keep at it,Going out on the first bird or never seeing a water series, for mulitple tests; and you start asking yourself "Why am I doing this again?".
    I think you hit the nail on the head for many new amateurs. It would benefit the handler and their own dog (an inexperienced one) if all new handlers could have the opportunity to handle an experienced, easy-to-run dog for at least a few master tests before running their dog. Don't know how many people are lucky enough to have that opportunity. Given the opportinity, I would definitely take it. And bless those whose first dog is a fire breather; not an easy way to learn. I'm currently in this position. Don't know how else to learn to work through actual Master tests besides participating in them. Of course, train for Master set-ups and get all the help you can learning to become a good handler.

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