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Thread: New suffix title QA2

  1. #91
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    With the level of the Quals today I don't think the every day MH will try it. I remember the first Qual I ran a few years ago. Somebody from McKenna Wa said they were going back to the Open. The first series there was easier than the first series of the Qual. . I personally think it will be a boost to newer people getting more involved with FT then advancing to AA stakes.
    Last edited by labsforme; 02-21-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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  2. #92
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    If the QA2 title passes in June, I will be watching the number of entries in my clubs' Qualifying stakes to see if there is an increase. I am hoping this new title will encourage owners of MH dogs to enter Qs .

    Speaking as a club Treasurer, we could use more Q entries...
    Helen
    I think it might help, but a lot of MH owners don't like the idea of running against FT pros that do nothing but train, for FTs. The Qual is a stake largely populated by Pros mostly won by Pros, usually Pros who are running dogs that have already won, and placed several times but hasn't got that 2nd, to disqualify them from the stake. Most MH dogs going for the title might do better trying for a AM jams, however it seems like every trial I've been to has had more than enough dogs in the AM stake. Out here we actually saw more amateur handlers of the MH owner type, take the plunge when a club ran a derby-qual event with none of the higher stakes; I think it was because most of the upper level FT peeps choose not to partake in the test.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-21-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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  3. #93
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I think it might help, but a lot of MH owners don't like the idea of running against FT pros that do nothing but train, for FTs. The Qual is a stake largely populated by Pros mostly won by Pros, usually Pros who are running dogs that have already won, and placed several times but hasn't got that 2nd, to disqualify them from the stake. .
    I think you are probably right about Qs being dominated by pros. It may depend on which part of the country as to whether pros dominate or not, but I am guessing that they do in most regions. I am going to check my catalogs for what's happening in the Q in No. Calif trials.

    Helen

  4. #94
    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    The Qual is a staging level for seeing where your dog is at for trialing. Not a cake walk. Going to have to go up against Pros anyway. Out here a lot of the derbies and Qual people run their own dogs. Pros are about half the field. I only have mine run because she's 500 miles away. When they come back up here I plan to run her myself.
    Yes I came from HT background. I like FT much better.
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  5. #95
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    I think you are probably right about Qs being dominated by pros. It may depend on which part of the country as to whether pros dominate or not, but I am guessing that they do in most regions. I am going to check my catalogs for what's happening in the Q in No. Calif trials.

    Helen
    In this part of the country, the Qs are mostly amateurs. The young dog pros will run a dog or two as it is coming out of derby, but only until it gets that first or second then it disappears until it is ready for AA work. There are a couple of mostly HT pros that run some Qs and are pretty good at getting the dogs ready, but it is mostly amateurs. The same faces every week, for the most part. It is a great bunch of folks, for the most part.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    In my estimation, with the OH/Q being counted toward the QA2 title the AKC has fallen into lock step with those involved in the "wussification of america".....
    john
    Is it fair to assume that ALL OH/Qs will be less demanding than a "real" Q?

    Maybe I'm being naive, but I would honestly believe that the majority of judges would not want to award the blue or red ribbon to dogs that they didn't believe deserved it, even if it is an OH/Q. Then one may have to allow for the fact that not all judges may be flawless in their integrity and knowledge.

    And, perhaps, we have to remember that the idea of the Q stake is to assure that the dogs who get the blue or red in those stakes are ready to run AA stakes ... which doesn't necessarily mean they are ready to place in those more advanced stakes.

    Originally, the whole purpose of the Q was to assure that there were a sufficient # of dogs entered in the AA stakes that had demonstrated themselves to be proficient enough to make the competition in the AA stakes of merit for CH points. Obviously that necessity hasn't been needed for a lot of years. One could just do away with the whole Q stake whenever clubs wanted to.

    Yet clubs continue to offer Q stakes, at least partly to increase their revenue from their trials.

    What I sense in this discussion (a very good one) is that those who are already very accomplished and don't attach a lot of importance to the Q stake. That is very understandable. I think it's just human nature, just as an engineer doesn't recall what it's like to struggle with Algebra I.

    As was mentioned in an earlier post, for Labs that can be understood. For the "minority" breeds, it is different. Goldens (the most numerous of the minority breeds) may, on the high side, have only 10 or so (or less?) living FCs and/or AFCs at any point in time. Many years there are only one or two FCs or AFCs completed among Goldens. So, for breeders who wish to pursue field abilities in their breeding programs, having such a designation can be helpful, both for current breeding and for studying the performance background of pedigrees they wish to combine over time.

    Will it increase entries dramatically? I don't think so. If one is pragmatic about it, the pro-trained dogs or amateur-trained dogs who already have their sights set on AA can still just move on and get their QA2 designation from the AA stakes, and just run a few Qs, just as they may do now. People with very solid MH dogs have already started getting their feet wet in Qs that are held in conjunction with FTs. There may be a few more who are given the incentive to do this; and at least some who will run more Qs in the hopes of getting the 2nd placement for the designation because they don't really envision finding success in the AA stakes.

    I don't really think that there is any danger that anyone versed in field trials will equate the QA2 designation with what it takes to become an AFC or FC.
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  7. #97
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    Is it fair to assume that ALL OH/Qs will be less demanding than a "real" Q?
    As it is in all FT stakes tests, the level of the demand placed on those vieing to be the winner is determened by the quality of both the dogs and handlers entered in the field.
    This is how it should be since we are attempting to find the relative merits of those entered that day in the field

    For the most part, in the other three stakes, FT's are tough' I can see no valid reason for any erosion of that quality, by design, in the Q .

    I don't really think that there is any danger that anyone versed in field trials will equate the QA2 designation with what it takes to become an AFC or FC.
    What about those not so well versed or those with no knowledge of the FT game at al ?

    NO, for breeding purposes, the QAA designation of *** is, and has been, looked to by some as an indication of prowess in the field....... we have an obligation to see that that is and remains to be so .

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-24-2014 at 07:34 AM.
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  8. #98
    Member TonyK's Avatar
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    Vote yes. I hope it makes for huge Q stakes and brings a lot of fresh faces every weekend. Don't worry about running against pros, just train hard then step up and beat them. A handler can learn a LOT by watching a good pro run dogs, take it all in and enjoy the weekend with your dog(s). And if QAA or QA2 is important to you or an end goal for you, then congrats, great job! Once you've topped out in the Q, try some Ams or go get another puppy and start all over! It's a real fun sport and you meet and hang out with some really good people.

    Looking forward to seeing everyone on the Southern circuit soon, I've had enough of winter!!!

  9. #99
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Another thing we might see is if the title brings in the MH type; you'll see older and more experienced dogs running the Qual. As Qual is usually a testing ground for the 2-4 yr. age range before they move on. It could change the entire dynamic.

    Side note; At Ft this weekend, there are many AA handlers, who will pony up the $$ to put the QA2 on their dogs name, even though they are aiming for loftier goals. They figure they've earn it so why not have it on paperwork.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 02-24-2014 at 12:00 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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    "I train dogs, Not papers"

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    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
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  10. #100
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    I'd expect entries to rise but with that comes the headaches of logistics and time for a stake that doesn't carry points. I'd be more impressed if they enacted a time rule to keep the minor stakes rolling along instead of waiting too long for pros to show.
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