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Thread: VA: Hunting with dogs is jeopardized

  1. #1
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    Default VA: Hunting with dogs is jeopardized

    FYI

    Eric
    ******

    Alert
    2-18-14
    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+sum+SB42

    SB 42 a bill attacking future Fox Hound Training Preserves will be heard tomorrow, February 19, in the VA House Agriculture - Natural Resources Sub-committee at 4:00 PM in House Room 3, which is located in the basement of the Capital. The entrance is on Bank Street. This is the site of last year’s meeting.

    Representatives of the Fox Hound Training Preserves and the VaHDA are working together on this THREAT TO ALL OF HOUND HUNTING! The Fox Hound Training Preserves will handle the speakers. Each side ours and the Humane Society of the United States will each be given 15 minutes to present their bills as the members of the committees have heard this issue before. Seating will be limited as it was last year.

    By now many of you have heard about the threats by Senator Marsden (D-Fairfax) and Attorney General Mark Herring that if this bill is killed Herring will issue an opinion that the Fox preserves are “Animal Fighting”. Any AG’s opinion has the effect of law upon state agencies and will require the DGIF staff to comply unless the DGIF Board was to order the staff to ignore that opinion. Because the courageous decision by the Preserve owners not to knuckle under to these threats the VaHDA will stand with them in this fight! This will be an epic Court battle that we must win. We are in the process of receiving counsel and will retain a defense team as this issue develops.

    I urge you to call and email
    Delegate Ken Plum
    (804) 698-1036,
    email: DelKPlum@house.virginia.gov

    and politely ask him to oppose this bill. Please also email our friendly delegates only as the phone call is unnecessary. Please click on the name of these principled leaders to obtain their email addresses: Edmunds (Chairman), Ware, Wright, Fariss, Poindexter,

    http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...141+sub+H01002
    Eric

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    Senior Member classact2731's Avatar
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    Eric it is easy to say it dose not affect me,however we would all be wise to remember the phrase divide and concur. Someday soon it will be are retrievers they set there sights on. Then flyers and the list goes on so no matter what type of dog work or breeds you may like it is time to just say enough.
    Scott

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    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classact2731 View Post
    Eric it is easy to say it dose not affect me,however we would all be wise to remember the phrase divide and concur. Someday soon it will be are retrievers they set there sights on. Then flyers and the list goes on so no matter what type of dog work or breeds you may like it is time to just say enough.
    Nope. This is not about hunting with dogs and sure as heck has nothing to do with retrievers. The "fox pens" are enclosures in which a fox is placed, and not being able to escape, is eventually killed and mauled by hounds released in the pen. Some claim this a "training" exercise, others see it as a from of dog fighting but with a fox. I'm a hunter, dog owner and enjoy training and competing with my retrievers. I'd be happy to see the current practice of fox pens banned.

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    Good Dogs-

    I'm not in Virginia. Is there any truth to the statement that the foxes have fox houses (1 per 20 acres) and that this is less about hunting foxes than it is about training fox hounds to hunt foxes.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

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    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    Good Dogs-

    I'm not in Virginia. Is there any truth to the statement that the foxes have fox houses (1 per 20 acres) and that this is less about hunting foxes than it is about training fox hounds to hunt foxes.
    From what I've learned it's not about true hunting - the fox has no chance to escape, unlike my flyers - and the fox hunters disown any connection to the pens. You can read more here: http://wildlifecenter.org/sites/defa...Fox%20pens.pdf The major complaints against the pens are that 1) Foxes are removed from the wild and used by the pen operators for personal profit, an action at odds with all standards of wildlife management for public use; 2) The activity is more akin to dog fighting than hunting.

    I don't buy the "slippery slope" argument that banning fox pens will lead to more restrictions on hunting, especially since the fox hunters are opposed to the pens. And the VA House of Delegates just increased hunting options by allowing Sunday hunting on private property. So if anything, Virginia is getting more hunter friendly.

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    Senior Member classact2731's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    Nope. This is not about hunting with dogs and sure as heck has nothing to do with retrievers. The "fox pens" are enclosures in which a fox is placed, and not being able to escape, is eventually killed and mauled by hounds released in the pen. Some claim this a "training" exercise, others see it as a from of dog fighting but with a fox. I'm a hunter, dog owner and enjoy training and competing with my retrievers. I'd be happy to see the current practice of fox pens banned.
    Good dog what you have written is false there are multiple places that are constructed in these pens (that are 100's of acres) for the fox to hide in. they limit the number of dogs that are allowed in the pen at anytime to avoid catching a fox as they would then have to replace fox. If you do think your flyer has a better chance of escaping ( hand thrown at 10 yards) then a fox in 100's of acres with muti safe houses then I can't even begin to carry on a conversation with you.Believe as you wish but when the pens are gone if you think they will be fjne with HT,FT and training good.If you believe this is an agenda against just fox pens and everything will go away then great I hope you are right. But if not we have lost a strong ally. If you have never been to a pen go and see what happens I am sure you will be no where near as appalled as the propaganda leads you to believe..
    Scott

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    Senior Member Mountain Duck's Avatar
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    I don't trust Mark Herring or the new carpet baggin' governor one bit. Herring's first order of business after taking office, was to announce his office would no longer defend The Marriage Ammendment passed several years ago by the voters. Regardless of your opinion on the issue, for the AG to immediately come out and refuse to defend the State Constitution should tip you off to his agenda.

    Put him in bed with HSUS, and it's a not what I would call a hunter friendly situation for the State of VA, regardless of the recent Sunday hunting ban being repealed.

    I don't know all the ins and outs of fox pens,but I do know traditional fox hunting around here involves old men sitting around a camp fire, drinking liquor, listening to the dogs run. It has zero to do with killing.
    Wildlife and Outdoor Photography

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    The enemy is not only at our door, he is among us. The agenda is never ending and next up could be hunt tests, preserve hunting, etc. Don't give an inch.

    On guard,
    Irishwhistler
    Last edited by Irishwhistler; 02-20-2014 at 10:05 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    Nope. This is not about hunting with dogs and sure as heck has nothing to do with retrievers. The "fox pens" are enclosures in which a fox is placed, and not being able to escape, is eventually killed and mauled by hounds released in the pen. Some claim this a "training" exercise, others see it as a from of dog fighting but with a fox. I'm a hunter, dog owner and enjoy training and competing with my retrievers. I'd be happy to see the current practice of fox pens banned.
    Did you get that garbage from a PETA talking points memo? Have you ever hunted with hounds? Didn't think so. I've hunted with hounds before and also been to two different fox pens. As ClassAct said they're hundreds of acres and are fenced to keep deer out and hounds in; they've been around since long before GPS/tracking collars became commonplace. They're used to train young hounds on fox without distraction of other game and include lots of cover and places foxes can go to ground. Yes they are stocked with trapped foxes, removed from places where they'd be otherwise shot. But after new foxes are released, they don't hunt there for several weeks so the new ones have had plenty of time to learn their new territory.

    I use to go regularly in my younger days (those trips were all nighters) and there was never a kill. Just like PETA/H$U$ and the anti hunters, you're trying to make it sound like a pack of hounds is put in a little chain link enclosure and freshly trapped foxes are tossed in so the dogs can rip them to shreds. And that couldn't be further from the truth of what they're used for, it's nothing but incendiary BS to make people think all hunting is barbaric and cruel. But you probably think mounted foxhunting is pretty cool, right? Well here's a news flash for you: most of the ones in VA start their young hounds in those pens. It's a great way for young unentered hounds to be able to hunt with seasoned old warriors and learn how to hunt. It's not about vicious killing, it's about hunting.

    By the way the bill was tabled, which hopefully means it'll die the way the VA Gen. Assembly runs, since this session is half over. Those of you who aren't in bed with PETA and H$U$, support for sending this bill to the trash would be appreciated by all real hunters since as pointed out before, divide and conquer has been a very effective strategy.
    Last edited by Julie R.; 02-20-2014 at 12:14 AM.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  10. #10
    Junior Member Randy Moore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    Nope. This is not about hunting with dogs and sure as heck has nothing to do with retrievers. The "fox pens" are enclosures in which a fox is placed, and not being able to escape, is eventually killed and mauled by hounds released in the pen. Some claim this a "training" exercise, others see it as a from of dog fighting but with a fox. I'm a hunter, dog owner and enjoy training and competing with my retrievers. I'd be happy to see the current practice of fox pens banned.
    Good dogs looking at your avatar. I see a dog killing a duck. Could say this has nothing to do with hunting throwing a duck up and shooting then wounding the duck and then sending the dog to kill it or bring it back so some one can ring its neck by spinning it around. Fact some of the people that do this dont ever intend to hunt the dog they just like killing and watching birds get killed. So they call this training. Between you and me I have never been to a FT or HT or seen what is really going on. but I would be happy to see this current practice banned. I am a hunter. I dont use dogs. I only shoot deer. Sorry Good dogs I under stand this from some one who does not hunt, or train dogs to hunt, and has not a clue but Knows everything. dont let these people brake us down in to small groups and take away the the sports we love.What we do is only a different color. Eric thanks for the alert.

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