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First Big D.....Now Heart of Texas

32K views 175 replies 51 participants last post by  birdboy 
#1 · (Edited)
I KNEW this test was going to open soon...it had to as it was fast approaching.....just had a gut feeling .....been checking it often.....checked at 10:45 Mtn time at a gas station.....not finalized .......pulled in my drive at 11:17 and checked one last time...the dang test is already full!
 
#3 ·
I tell you guys.... For a person having their first dog to ever try for a Master test..... This game is becoming not much fun FAST
 
#8 ·
What do breeders have to do with this issue?
 
#7 ·
Why is that worth noting? It would be expected that Junior and Senior wouldn't have the rush to enter since they are not limited.

Bryan-College Station started out that way, too and ended up with 77 Seniors and 88 & 96 Juniors.
 
#18 ·
Wow, and yet several here think you need to stop whining and work harder at being at a computer when it opens. :rolleyes:
 
#19 ·
I don't think I am whining or complaining. Just a bit exasperated about how the game is being played. Not throwing my sucker in the dirt, but sure feel like these issues need to be discussed
 
#20 ·
I know you are not whining, there are a few here though that don't seem to understand what hunt tests are suppose to be about.
 
#23 ·
100% correct Todd My trainer has the owner enter their own dog
 
#24 ·
Furthermore, your entries are subject to be scratched from this event and Entry Express reserves the right to require payment in advance, via cashier check, for future event entry until your account is made current."

I'd think that a club would be royally PO'd if a handler's dogs were scratched. Suppose a handler has 20 dogs entered in a Master and then it closes, Then EE scratches the dogs because of non-payment. Now the club is left with 20 openings that could have gone to someone else and in fact may have already consumed resources ... birds, committed to bird boys or judges, etc. I'm not certain but that the club wouldn't have grounds for a claim against EE for the entry fees ... 20 X $75 or whatever.

If EE were to require payment and then enter the dogs, that would be fine. Here I'm talking about letting a handler enter his 20 dogs but the entries are held in suspense until a credit card transaction is approved or the funds received. If the money gets there too late ... tough. The dogs are out as other entries were accepted in the meantime. The way it's described, EE is fronting for the high volume handlers in an almost criminal manner.

I'd think that the single dog owners that are unable to enter consistently in these circumstances, should contact the AKC. AKC has this set of files into which all letters outlining a problem go whether it's about the judging, an issue with the rules, or an issue regarding the test events themselves. When enough letters are in a file that it begins to smell like old, dead fish, they pull the file and begin to watch things more closely. AKC could do a number of things all the way up to banning the use of an entry service. Entry services are used in most AKC venues but this is the only event for which the service (EE) itself is being blamed or called into question. Dead fish...
 
#27 ·
It definitely does give an advantage to a pro, or more specifically to the pro's do-nothing clients who write the checks and lounge around the gallery if they bother to attend at all. If the onus was put on the owners to enter their own dogs, the distribution of pro vs O/H dogs would be a lot fairer. Also--some pros enter for their buddies. Used to be you'd see a lot of people listing a pro as alternate handler so they'd be in the same flight if tests were split; now you see it on entries on these tests that fill fast. Seems like coalitions of friends with only one or two dogs need to develop something similar with a club member of the test they want to enter....watch for that, coming to a test near you! Heck I'd do it because I have very Third World internet/cell access and rarely carry, much less use my cell phone when on the road. I'd gladly pay a fee to some techie that is on their phone 24/7 to enter for me if there was a test I wanted to get into.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Todd, the entering isn't the fun. Lord Knows it isnt ANY fun right now! But give me a little more credit if you will. We start the dog, and send it to a long time friend who knows this bloodline better than anyone. We go down and throw birds when we can and learn to run our dog. We learn to run a dog that knows cues. I can't imagine someone begrudging someone wanting to learn to train their dog the right way.

This time of year we are consumed with lambing( we have a ranch) and our full time jobs


But thats why it's my hobby. I can chose how I spend my money and how to get the most out of it for me and my dog

edited to add. By training the right way, I'm not implying you need to use a pro to train the right way, what I'm saying is that we got tired of our dog suffering for our training errors. By getting a good foundation, we should have more luck figuring out how to do this correctly. I guess it is t any different than a guy running a dog that they purchased trained
 
#30 ·
I can't imagine someone begrudging someone wanting to learn to train their dog the right way.

I'm not begrudging you at all, and this has nothing to do with wanting to learn how to train a dog the right way, I think it's great that people use a pro to get going on the right track or to fix a problem that they can't figure out ect.
 
#36 ·
In any sport where there is a reward, be it monetary or emotional, a level of corruption will creep in. You see in in everything from pee wee football to professional sports.

Each owner has their own situation driving whether they train, handle, or just enjoy the pride of ownership of their dogs. We seek out these tests as a way to validate our investments in time, money and emotions. The dogs don't really care whether they pass or fail.

I hope the game will self right itself. If it implodes, I am confident that another will take its place.

Until it does, everyone keep feeding, training, and enjoying your dogs. Bottom line they are far more important than another ribbon.
 
#38 ·
The problem has been created by the clubs. The clubs are owned, and run by the membership. The clubs made a decision to limit entries and now the membership isn't happy because there aren't enough spots and its "damn the pros". Unbelievable. If you don't like it take it up with your club. Not a member?? No license to bitch.
The answer is not MORE laws, and restrictions. Its starting to sound like the federal government. All I've read over and over is "lack of help"..."pros and clients don't help"..."we don't have people"..I can assure you that limiting entries does only that. It doesn't solve the real problem of why your club can't recruit enough help. Keep on and it will be just like the HRC. Pros can only run 12 dogs...if the club itself allows....flights are limited to 30...anyone can enter up until the day of...keep on. Then let your secretary pull his/her hair out trying to keep all of the BS straight... and forget turning a profit. You will have bitten the hand so to speak and handcuffed the very resource that ensures your club stays out of the red.
Y'all want fairness in entering?? That's easy. But that's not really what yall want. Y'all want special treatment to make sure your "amateur" dog gets preference over anybody else. Affirmative action doesn't work. There's no such thing as fair. The answer is not punitive on the pros part...its proactivity from the clubs.
 
#40 ·
Laughing on the Texas deal. My dog is a Tx bred dog, and we used to be local owners... But jobs sent us to Colorado. Smile

but you know what- if that were the rules- we would come up with a solution. Of course that would be tough for some states that only have a couple HT per year.

i guess they would just need to move to another state....LOL
 
#42 ·
We fought for years, tooth and nail, to fill up our flights and not lose money on every test we put on. 12 isn't enough. I'd let one pro have an entire flight so long as he'd bring an assistant to take care of his honoring and bye dog issues. If the hrc would allow 15 dogs I'd give 2 pros one flight and let it run itself. I'd bet my life savings it would finish first and be the smootjest run flight on the grounds. And yes, you can effectively judge more than 30 dogs. With 2 flights in one day an hrc judge sees approx 60 a day...WITH breakdown and setup from land to water and vice versa. If you never had to move and dont mis-manage your time its no problem to see 75 a day. I've seen 90 done in 1 8hr day last fall at cooper river. It was a good test too. I'm telling you, limiting the pros ain't gonna get it. They fund this whole deal whether you want to admit it or not.
 
#43 ·
Wow, anyone who wants to come help with PPRC's inability to be proactive because we limit entries is more than welcome...blaming the clubs is pretty lame! Our club works freaking hard to generate membership and keep active people but it isn't easy and I'm happy if we can snag a warm body for a year or so. And I have a few choice words for those who say PPRC is not being proactive, however I'll refrain but know it has something to do with kissing...oh yeah and pounding sand!

How about requiring the actual owner to enter their dogs, no more authorized agent (ie Pro or friend of a friend)...this would limit mass entries possibly?
 
#48 ·
How is blaming the cause of the situation lame?? The clubs asked for limits. They got them. Now, their own members can't get spots in their own tests and its someone else's fault? Its not belittling in any way. Its fact. You don't have to like it but pointing fingers at those supporting your club doesn't answer the problem. It is obvious the problem is limits. Those are set by the club.
 
#45 ·
What exactly is the problem?

Secret handshake entry system
Limited workers
Limited grounds
Too many pro dogs
Too few amateur dogs
Master National Impact on weekend HT

Seems like a lot of people focusing on different issues
Probably there is no one size fits all answer
 
#49 ·
seems it would be pretty easy to accept all entries then hold a lottery drawing to fill the spots. then you wouldnt have to know the secret handshake. Also clubs could see how many flights they could fill.
 
#53 ·
I did notice that HOTRC did list the date the entries would open, guess you have to be an insider to know the time. Can anyone answer if you are using the VIP function is your entry immediate, it takes me a little bit to go throught the payment screens. Luckily FT's dont limit thier entries. Might save me $$$$ most weekends :)
 
#54 · (Edited)
Ok, I have held back on saying this but what the heck.

I think the AKC HT org could learn a lot from the UKC HRC org. From the front office to the field they seem to have it together and much larger club participation. This is from what I've seen in the past 3 years since joining.

In my opinion, this is what the HRC does to manage the same problems:

They set up two series for Finished. Flight A runs land in the am and Flight B runs water in the am. Judges go with the flight and they which. 50 dogs two series one day.
Then they do it again the next day, 4 series in 2 days vs 3 Master Series in two days with 60 dogs.

They limit the number of dogs per handler (rumor when this rule when into effect, some pros decided to go exclusive AKC because of no limits per handler).

They also have limits per flight, but if necessary another club will step in and man an additional flight, much more cooperation between clubs because the HRC organization is situated in Regions. Much more representation in the field compared to the AKC.

Current tests are open and not filled, but you need to monitor and commit eventually. The same as AKC before limits, so it is not all limits.

They also take walk ups the day of the tests, so all of the scratches are normally filled on a limited number test. Clubs work closely with HuntTestSecetarty.com to maintain a waiting list and fill the scratches as they come up prior to the test.

They have 2 Regional Grand Hunting Events in one year vs. one monster Master National event. They also have another recognition level beyond the Grand and HRCH title, a 500 Point Level and I think another 1000. You do not need to go to the Grand for a 500 Point award.

Just saying ..... some other ways to skin the cat.
 
#55 ·
Just checked a test in my area, limited Masters, has the date AND TIME the entries open. Some will still argue that all are not fairly served but in my opinion everyone has the same shot. Maybe as good as you can do, considering.
 
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