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Thread: Show vs. Field enlightenment

  1. #61
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...470_o.jpg?dl=1

    1963 picture and overview of the breed standard using an actual dog.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swack View Post
    Good stuff Glenda!

    One thing I'd like to add is that "Built to Work" can be defined differently depending on what a person does with his retriever. A Texas dove hunter may have different needs from a guy who hunts geese from a field in the upper Midwest. Someone who hunts sea ducks may have a different ideal build from a person who hunts Dakota pheasants. A serious field trial competitor may have his idea of perfection which doesn't match a Michigan grouse and woodcock hunter's notion of perfection. And a flooded timber duck hunter may have different preferences from a fellow hunting tidal marshes.

    There's room to accommodate different styles (or types) within the breed standard. Each can be suited to a different specialty. One a little larger and more powerful; another a little smaller and more agile. Yet they each should have the "Stamp" on them which defines them as a Labrador retriever. What I think we've found issue with are those dogs at either extreme which have exceeded the limits set forth by the standard and deviated from what defines the breed.

    Swack


    This makes a lot of sense. After all what is a breed standard but someones opinion?
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Grady was mentioned so I will use him as an example. Maybe he doesnt fit the breed standard but I think he is a very nice looking dog and he can certainly do the work. I have a Grady pup here that is a horse but he still is a beautiful animal. He may be too large to run all day hunting upland birds but he is well suited for harsh waterfowl conditions. Hard to put a standard on something that requires different types. I for one am gratefull for different types of labs. I can choose what best suits my needs. I think generally under the skin they are still labradors and thhat is what makes them so special. The breed has survived us humans which cant be said for some other breeds. I'd like to see a breed standard put on humans.

  3. #63
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    The primary function of the retriever breeds the Labradore included, is to seek and retrieve fallen game and deliver it to hand.
    This this is true for all fallen game but with with a specific emphasis placed on waterfowl hunting,
    And while they are very addaptable and do have many secoundary functions, the dogs under discussion here are primaraly being breed to to be tested on such retrieving of fallen game.

    Hence the body style needed to perform the secondary tasks should not be a major consideration when breeding.
    Don't stray too far from the "Stamp"

    john
    Last edited by john fallon; 02-27-2014 at 05:48 PM.
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  4. #64
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    The primary function of the retriever breeds the Labradore included, is to seek and retrieve fallen game and deliver it to hand.
    This this is true for all fallen game but with with a specific emphasis placed on waterfowl hunting,
    And while they are very addaptable and do have many secoundary functions, the dogs under discussion here are primaraly being breed to to be tested on such retrieving of fallen game.

    Hence the body style needed to perform the secondary tasks should not be a major consideration when breeding.
    Don't stray too far from the "Stamp"

    john
    It would be a clinical world John if this were true.
    I bet 99 % of the retriever breeds registered or unregistered in the world won't/don't retrieve to hand? The ''Stamp'' of the 99% is not necessarily the Stamp 'we' all perceive?
    The dogs under discussion are 'Labrador Retrievers' as a Breed ..Scary !!
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  5. #65
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    Grady has a Conformation Certificate which he received after being judged by three AKC conformation judges, all Lab breeders. The same with his son, Trav. They both were judged to be within the standard for a Labrador Retriever. I would love to have seen them be shown at something like Westminster. Instead of "baiting them" with liver, how about waving a dead duck to get their attention.

    Glenda

  6. #66
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    Glenda....I've wished before that I COULD bring a dead duck into the show ring. My dogs would REALLY shine!!!
    Sue Puffenbarger
    Wirtz, VA
    www.boynelabradors.com

  7. #67
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suepuff View Post
    Glenda....I've wished before that I COULD bring a dead duck into the show ring. My dogs would REALLY shine!!!
    Try a wing, use it when you really want a striking pose like after moving for the judge. Some dogs can be too fixated on the wing in your pocket and never take their eyes off your hand which can defeat the purpose.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  8. #68
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    I have Tom...but the duck works OH SO MUCH better!!! LOL!!!
    Sue Puffenbarger
    Wirtz, VA
    www.boynelabradors.com

  9. #69
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    You all might want to take a quick look at the video of the gundog demo at Crufts. I think all of those dogs showed a happy medium between the show and field "specialists". They were considerably more athletic in look than their representatives in the show-ring portion of Crufts, but they were all respectable representatives of "type" for their breeds (JMHO).

    Just an FYI ... the size disqualification for Labs is a more recent addition to the Standard (last 10 years or so?) Prior to that there was a size mentioned in the Standard, but no disqualification attached. Goldens, OTOH, have had a size disqualification for as long as I can remember. As I recall the size disqualification was added for Labs in response to the trend of shorter-legged dogs in the show ring. It was the show contingent that objected to the addition of the disqualification at that time.

    That dog shown in the 1962 Standard looks like a very balanced dog and one capable of doing his job in the field. I far prefer the noble, "chiseled" look of the head on that dog to what we see today in the show ring. Back in the early 70s I knew a YLM built very much like that. He was a CH and a good hunting dog, too. I'm not a Lab person, so that opinion may not be worth anything
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