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Thread: Concerned about pups abilities/desire

  1. #1
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    Default Concerned about pups abilities/desire

    I have a pup, he was whelped on 6-18-2013. He is out of AFC Ten Bears Road Trip x Elm Creek's' Koa MH (FC AFC Barracuda Blue x Abbagale White MH) He was the pick of the litter of the breeder/trainer I bought him from. He sold him to me because he felt terrible for me, I had to put a 18 month old trained choc pup down due to a life threatening reaction to his booster vaccinations. Also because I promised him he was going to be professionally trained by the same guy as the first, who trains gun dogs and field trial dogs. The breeder/trainer said he was the most curious and independent pup of the bunch. The day we brought the little guy home, he was 7.5 weeks old, my wife questioned the price tag on him. Her concerns were gone when she threw a bumper and the little pudge ran out, picked it up and brought it back to her. In fact he did that with whatever you threw for him. We quickly realized he was crazy for duck and goose wings and loved to chase. If it wasn't nailed down he was walking around with it in his mouth. He would flush grouse while he went on daily walks with my wife through the woods. He would retrieve but would get bored with it quickly after a few throws on land, in water, a different story, he would do it all day. He was sent south to warmer climates to begin training the beginning of January. I was recently called and said the dog doesn't really like to retrieve and that he shouldn't need to apply a lot of pressure to make the pup do these things. This really worried me because it seemed so odd to what I had observed. I called the breeder/trainer whom I bought him from and he said he would take him as soon as he gets back and work with him free of charge because he said he guarantees these pups. I'm rather nervous about this. I do not have a lot of experience in this but it appears he has some pretty solid choc genetics and he shouldn't be a dud. I'm not looking for a FC dog, sure if the trainer thought he had it in him then great. I'm hoping for a solid steady waterfowl dog. Am I just worried about nothing, is he still young and there's time? He is just a few days over 8 months. Should I let him stay south for the final month and then bring him to the breeder/trainer where he was purchased? With the time, money, and tradegy of the first pup and now this disheartening news I'm pretty overwhelmed. Thanks you for any help or advice you can give.

  2. #2
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    It may be that the experience of being off with the trainer is too much for the pup. Some dogs do not do well in that type of environment. It may be that the pup is too immature yet, or that the trainer can't read the dog well enough to tell what the dog needs or doesn't need. If I were you, I would bring the pup home and let him recover from being away, then slowly start back into training. However, that is just my opinion based on my experience.

    Meredith

  3. #3
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    So if my math is right the pup is 8 months old. IMO this is way too early for the trainer to be making those kinds of statements and assumptions. That, not the performance of the dog, would worry me. The reason that I say this is because all of us no matter what we say have our own little personal beliefs about how a good dog should be and what a good dog will do and that sometimes affects our decision making when we train. I personally have had a lot of client dogs that have a tough time with FF. All dogs are different and some of them handle pressure differently. I have also seen a lot of dogs that were pretty poor markers that turned on when they were a little older. I would say pull your dog and get him with someone that is going to take the time and effort to challenge your dog to its fullest potential. JMHO

  4. #4
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the trainer doesn't want to continue with the puppy--he or she appears to feel he/she can't give you your money's worth, and wants to do right by you. Sounds to me like the breeder wants to work with the puppy, and it won't cost you. Note that the breeder is familiar with the puppy's dam, who provides half the puppy's genetics.

    You don't know if the puppy is a dud or if there's a mismatch between puppy temperament and trainer style. What's the risk and possible benefit of leaving puppy with trainer? Another months' fee and the trainer, if I understand correctly, predicts a low probability of benefit. What's the risk and possible benefit of placing puppy with breeder for awhile? No financial risk, possibly significant benefit if breeder has the key to getting the puppy trained.

    From what you say, this breeder has done you a lot of good and shown good will.

    I apologize if I have misunderstood the communication from the trainer.

    Amy Dahl

  5. #5
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    seems you sent your pup south to a "pro" for a 3 month or so basics maybe FF crash course, right? If so, a lot needs to be stuffed into those weeks. Also, some dogs mature at different times. Some are ready for formal basic training at 5 months others at 7 or 8 months. Yours may be a late bloomer. Regardless, some young dogs don't take to kindly going through basics and the yard no matter what. When hurried or when handled by a not so competent pro you might expect some issues beyond what is normal.
    First make sure this pro in fact knows what he's doing. Investigate through paths you haven't in the past. If questionable, yank the dog back home. Not many pros I know train both gundogs & FT dogs. If the pro is OK then make sure dog gets jazzed up with fun happy happy stuff in training to counter the not so fun yard work. This means marks, marks, marks.
    At what stage of the Yard is the dog now?
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  6. #6
    Member Bryan 3x's Avatar
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    I have a pup out of tick and he went through something similar. About 7 months to 8 months I thought he didn't like to retrieve. I had a pro help me finish force fetch and he also worked on letting the dog have fun and not so much on being perfect or strict with everything. Like a flip of the switch, he is a fireball when retrieving. He even hops around wanting more. So put the fun back into retrieving with him for a bit. I was once worried that I sunk money in a dog that didn't like to retrieve. Now we do about what ever and he impresses me daily.
    Bryan Corbett
    Ten Bears Wild Road Trip "Reece"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    There's an old saying. You can take the go out of them, but you can't put it back in. Or something like that.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  8. #8
    Senior Member CodyC's Avatar
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    I know nothing about titles or professionally training dogs. But I can assure you of this, they do all mature and grow at different rates as well as "turn the light bulb on" at different ages. For example, my brothers dog, was a natural and just picked things up earlier than she should have, running blinds at 8 months. My dog is a big goofy male and he is about to turn 1 and we are just now starting blinds. He matured a lot slower than her. Luckily it was easy to notice because they were so close in age and I knew I needed to give him the correct amount of time before pushing him.

    I am a true believer that deep down inside every lab the ability is there, you just have to read the dog and figure out how, or in this case, when to pull it out of him.

    Again, I trained my first two dogs to "hunt", that's all. No blinds retrieves or hand signals just watch the bird, follow the gun, go get the bird and bring it back.

    This is my first try at training what they call a "gentleman's dog) so don't take my advice to the grave

  9. #9
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    Thank you all for the help and alleviating some of my concerns. Yes, he is 8 months old. I will definetly give him to the breeder/trainer when I get him back, after he spends a short time at home and gets some TLC. He is a ball of fun to watch retrieve, right as he approaches he just pounces on whatever has been tossed. Again, thank you all.

  10. #10
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    I have learned the hard way that these kind of messages need to be dealt with quickly. The pup and the trainer are not meshing. Too early for it to be the pup's abilities. I'd be giving that pup to the breeder ASAP. You don't want the pup to develop a bad attitude. That can hard to get over.



    i think the saying is, "You can put pressure on a dog, but you can't take it back."
    Susan

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