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Thread: Concerned about pups abilities/desire

  1. #11
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    "I have learned the hard way that these kind of messages need to be dealt with quickly. The pup and the trainer are not meshing. Too early for it to be the pup's abilities. I'd be giving that pup to the breeder ASAP. You don't want the pup to develop a bad attitude. That can hard to get over."

    I was uncomfortable reading about your situation.....too close to home. Sent a very talented, happy pup that was through transition off for a few months "evaluation". At the end of one month I was concerned. At then end of two months it was too obvious. No need for details, but it was very clear she wasn't thriving......I made a quick decision and she came home with me that day. Every once in awhile when reading a thread like this I wonder "What if I had known better?"

    I totally agree with Justice Dog.
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  2. #12
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    I have a pup, he was whelped on 6-18-2013. He is out of AFC Ten Bears Road Trip x Elm Creek's' Koa MH (FC AFC Barracuda Blue x Abbagale White MH) He was the pick of the litter of the breeder/trainer I bought him from. He sold him to me because he felt terrible for me, I had to put a 18 month old trained choc pup down due to a life threatening reaction to his booster vaccinations. Also because I promised him he was going to be professionally trained by the same guy as the first, who trains gun dogs and field trial dogs. The breeder/trainer said he was the most curious and independent pup of the bunch. The day we brought the little guy home, he was 7.5 weeks old, my wife questioned the price tag on him. Her concerns were gone when she threw a bumper and the little pudge ran out, picked it up and brought it back to her. In fact he did that with whatever you threw for him. We quickly realized he was crazy for duck and goose wings and loved to chase. If it wasn't nailed down he was walking around with it in his mouth. He would flush grouse while he went on daily walks with my wife through the woods. He would retrieve but would get bored with it quickly after a few throws on land, in water, a different story, he would do it all day. He was sent south to warmer climates to begin training the beginning of January. I was recently called and said the dog doesn't really like to retrieve and that he shouldn't need to apply a lot of pressure to make the pup do these things. This really worried me because it seemed so odd to what I had observed. I called the breeder/trainer whom I bought him from and he said he would take him as soon as he gets back and work with him free of charge because he said he guarantees these pups. I'm rather nervous about this. I do not have a lot of experience in this but it appears he has some pretty solid choc genetics and he shouldn't be a dud. I'm not looking for a FC dog, sure if the trainer thought he had it in him then great. I'm hoping for a solid steady waterfowl dog. Am I just worried about nothing, is he still young and there's time? He is just a few days over 8 months. Should I let him stay south for the final month and then bring him to the breeder/trainer where he was purchased? With the time, money, and tradegy of the first pup and now this disheartening news I'm pretty overwhelmed. Thanks you for any help or advice you can give.
    I have been privy to duds out of famous breedings with multiple fc in the litter.
    The most well known field trial pro's have washed dogs out of basics and have been honest with their clients and it had nothing to do with meshing. It had to do with a bad mix of genes.

    You showed concern that he didn't retrieve much on land. It could mean something or it may not,,we don't know.

    Trust your trainer and your breeder. Send the dog home if it isn't making enough progress to satisfy the trainer. Your breeder will work her butt off to prove a dud didn't come from this litter.

    Its possible that your dog is immature,,or its a dud,,or a poor specimen,,or the trainer wasn't savvy enough to help your dog,,or it could be what you did or didn't do with this dog at a young age ,,, or..or,,
    I can tell you that the trainer knows the dog better than you and doesn't have an emotional tie to it so he can give a non emotional assessment.
    Sometimes dogs like this game until the rules start to apply.
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  3. #13
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    I would be concerned about the trainer. There are so many people today who claim they are dog trainers like some who claim they are "experts" in many crafts/professions. Some deliver /some don't. Find another pro like you would a dentist//doc/car mechanic. Second/third opinions AND training approaches vary. I have a five year old Tick son who is a honest/motivated AA dog. He does best w/o
    heavy daily training but he does not like jumping over stone walls on land blinds. Working on that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    I picked up a top bred female in January of 2013. AT home as we worked her through obedience she showed lots of drive and good basic retrieving attitudes. We took her at 6.5 months to the best field trainer we know, this will be our last retriever, as our age is getting up to where in another 10+ years we will not be able to handle working retrievers.

    After around 4 weeks when talking with our trainer he said she was a bit 'squirly' could be an issue with trainability or just immature, he was not sure yet. I was very concerned but agreed to keep on the program. I trusted him to do what was right for me and the dog. Two weeks later he called and said he was not progressing well with her, he thought it was immaturity. He suggested I take her home for a few months and then we could try again after she matures. I picked her up and kept her until January (she was 13.5mo). We sent her with our trainer to Texas for training at their winter camp.

    I as I have talked with our trainer over the last few weeks, he said she looks to be an outstanding girl with tons of drive, loves to work, and he is making great progress with her.....

    So I am suggesting to you that it sounds like your dog is maybe just immature....trust the trainer and the breeder and work through it with her at her pace. If you find the trainer has screwed her up, then I would give the dog some time to settle...and find a new trainer...but I suspect it is nothing more than immaturity...Good luck

  5. #15
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    For all of you who are suggesting that the trainer is incompetent, I'd like to ask you to consider:

    This trainer trained the OP's first dog

    The trainer is upfront about the fact that training isn't working, so as not to take the OP's money without result--a facet of good professional ethics

    Dogs do mature differently and training styles that work for some dogs don't work for others

    It is easy to sit and speculate and point fingers, but the pro's livelihood and reputation are at stake and there's not a lot of information here.

    Thanks.

    Amy Dahl

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I am always amazed at how quickly people offer advice about a dog that they have never seen. Some quick observations:

    1. I would be impressed by the pros candor. For over 25 years, I had my dogs trained by Cherylon Loveland (who has recently retired from dog training). She once told me after two weeks that I should pick up the dog. I did, and he became a great pet. Many people criticized her because she would wash out my dogs so quickly (because she knew what I wanted). I told them "It would be easier for her to string me along and cash my checks." I knew that I could rely on what she told me. I wouldn't want to burn a bridge with a person like that.

    2. I have seen many dogs over the years that were too immature to be placed in training at 6 months of age. This may be one of them.

    3. I have owned young dogs from very nice breedings that did not have much retrieving desire at 8 months of age. I guess I could have waited, but I did not.

    4. Given where things are now, it seems like a low risk, high reward move to return the dog to the breeder for a while.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
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    What Ted said. At least the pro is being honest with you. And it's not uncommon for dogs to come from very nice breedings and be duds. I bred my QAA bitch to a FC-AFC stud, and she had 10 pups who are now a year old. 4 or 5 of them look like world beaters, but one was washed out for having low desire and one was washed for being wild with desire. You never know.

  8. #18
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    I'm just really hoping he isnt a dud. Thank you all. I will get pup back and let the breeder handle him when he gets back in state.

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