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Thread: Cold Blind tips? Does and don'ts.

  1. #1
    Senior Member CodyC's Avatar
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    Default Cold Blind tips? Does and don'ts.

    Beginning cold blinds with my almost 1 year old BLM and was wondering if there are anything, pointers or tips to make this transition go smoothly? Any certain way to start out that makes it easiest for the dog? And most importantly, is there anything that should absolutely be avoided?

    We have done everything to prepare him for this as far as FF, Force to Pile, T work, Pattern blinds (out to 250 yards) and some lining drills like wagon wheel, multiple marks (double marks, no triples yet).

    I did two test runs with him at 40 yards and he nailed them but I pretty much expected that, they were easy, but still true cold blinds. Trying to get this down pat before the heat comes in the next couple of months and training will be limited.


    Any advice is appreciated. Thanks

    Cody C

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    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    These are not my words but read below and if you've covered the bases move on to cold blinds.
    .
    TRANSITIONS FROM DOUBLE “T” TO COLD BLINDS

    Dog knows the rudiments of Go / Stop / Cast / Return with collar reinforcements.

    In "Transition" we take these skills to new physical locations and add distance and distractions, to generalize the behaviors. Still a lot of "show and tell"

    Pattern Blinds:
    Three 100-200 yard lines to recognizable, yet new, destinations. Start close, show pile, move back.

    Pattern Blind with Diversions:
    New location / single pile
    Identify the pile from line
    Run / Handle to pile
    Add Bird Boy to side, run to pile
    Throw / Pick up mark, run to pile
    Throw mark, leave it, run to pile, pick up mark.

    Take the above Pattern Blind Drills to 3-5 new locations, until smooth. Generalized go, stop, cast behaviors emerge.

    Go to Early Cold Blinds
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  3. #3
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Some more to ponder follows:

    .
    BLIND RETRIEVE PRINCIPLES/ EARLY COLD BLINDS

    Retrievers should respond quickly and eagerly to whistles and directions, meaning:
    Take the original line given
    Continue on that line
    Stop when commanded
    Take a new direction as given
    Continue on that line until bird is found

    Blind retrieves should take advantage of natural distractions such as:
    Islands
    Points of land
    Sand bars
    Ditches
    Hedges
    Bushes
    Adjacent heavy cover
    Rolling terrain

    EARLY COLD BLINDS

    Don't fiddle about precise lines - "kick-em -off"
    Walk behind dog, as he runs, keeping the dog near to you. When you blow sit whistle, he will find you close by (like the distance from you when learning basics)
    Rope is a good idea
    Multiple planted blinds with emergency options
    Mix side sends and remote casts
    Chairs, trees in foreground to distinguish lines
    Natural targets, like on Double “t” (trees, etc.)
    Avoid strong negating factors (Wind, Terrain, Cover)
    Avoid tight lines and cheating obstacles
    3 peat to teach themes and concepts and build momentum

    WATER
    Channels - Long axis of swim- by pond is a good place to start
    Floating, anchored bumpers in swimming water
    Cheating singles type pictures, but less cheaty.



    LINING UP YOUR DOG / TACTICS AT LINE

    Heel / Watching / Set-up Position

    Consistency in this position is key to line / bird communication

    Handler stands with both feet squarely pointed parallel to the line of the bird

    Handler looks out at the next bird, not at the dog

    Dog sits with near side front foot next to handler’s foot. Head by handler’s knee (visual contact)

    Sitting squarely on four feet, pointing at the bird

    No slumping on hip/ crouching / standing/ leaning on or away from handler.

    Teaching dog to recognize and seek this position

    Be precise and consistent with your stance and dog’s position

    Use collar tab and heeling stick (gently)

    Drills:
    1. 1 / 3 /5 step heeling

    1. Pivots in unison
    2. One step heeling: forward, back and side
    3. #2 + #3 above, but dog sit stays – handler moves away – calls dog into “here” / “heel” position


    Lining Skills

    Initial Lines

    Conditioning dog to being called back/ no-no: Sit whistle and can’t return until you call in. Always stop dog. No auto recalls/ returns

    Understanding and returning to heel position

    Use of pull-tab and light stick

    Slot and chair lining drills

    Training group etiquette: do not try to converse with a handler who is working on lining up the dog


    Lining Skills, Progression


    Line to visible bumper/ pile
    Line to known marker (tree, rock, etc.)
    Line to your choice of markers
    Relativity to markers (i.e. line between/ past chairs, trees, rocks, etc.) / slots
    Line tight past marker (past chair, tree, etc.)
    General acceptance of wherever you point/line them they will go there!!!!
    3 peat lining progression drills


    WATER BLINDS

    Attention to:
    success ratio/ attitude / momentum / style
    control

    Components: (vs running the single / big /complex water blind)
    Entry, re-entry, stay in, up and out
    3 – peats: repeating/emphasizing only one component per session

    Attitude

    Clear pictures and 3 – peats

    Sometimes talk the dog through problems, not always wise to punish/correct

    Concentrate on the concept/ less on the “line,” eg. fighting a cross wind, etc.

    Control: No “blow-ups”. Slow down/stop then resume

    Tune-up drills with a theme: entry / cut corners / re-entry/ run past –get in / parallel shore

    Casting/voice

    • Permission casts for water exits
    • Silent casts for direction change/ stay in the water
    • Loud voice for drive/ up and out



    ADVANCED BLINDS

    Effective Casting (Trial vs. Training)

    Anticipation / Planned approaches to and exits from Hazards
    Maintain standards in training (literal casts)
    Survival at the trial (momentum casts), if the first cast didn't work get more suggestive / emphatic (but keep your cool)

    Rarely run a single complex water blind in training (too “pass / fail,” non-instructive)

    Components / Tune-Up (Series) Approach/ 3-peats

    Cold Drills, Ending in Successful Understanding
    Examples for drills:
    Entries
    Re-Entries
    Cast into Water
    Stay-Ins
    Up & Outs
    Poison Birds
    Chair Drills
    Past / Over / Off Points
    Obstacles

    Complexity of Blinds
    Diversions, poison birds
    Tight Lines/ Multiples Blinds
    Factors: Wind, Terrain, Cover, Distance,Shorelines, etc.
    Water entries

    Typical Problems on Blinds
    Lack of solid basics
    Control at Distance (not stopping, not casting)
    Hunty Attitude
    Bugging
    Poor attitude/ style / momentum
    Mostly due to lack of experience or success



    MODEL BLIND SET UP

    Awareness of wind and all other factors / hazards (weather radio/compass)

    Expected Successful / Intended outcomes

    Strategies / Remedies Planned

    Come to Line
    Line - up: side to send from, Push / Pull, use of Hands / Feet
    Importance of square stance

    Initial Line
    Plan approach to/exit from Hazards

    Handle Away from Hazards and Into Visibility
    Awareness of side dog turns to on whistle, relative to hazards

    Momentum Preservation
    Allow to fight factors, even if off line. Re-orientation cast should be easy
    "Reading the Momentum Gauge": whistles, corrections and attrition run it down
    Don't let young dogs get into "deep holes": down wind, down hill, along shoreline
    Prevent trouble: Quick intervention, don't hope for dog to discover his error and re-gain his line

    End Hazards
    Come-in whistle: downwind drift tendency

    Attitude: cold blinds are mostly trained behavior, and a dog’s attitude can suffer from inappropriately high corrections ratio. Caution!

    Instead, work on: Components of blinds. 3 peats/ Tune - up approach, non- conflicting, progressively successful outcomes

    Solve acute problems (tune-up approach) with remedial drills before attempting more advanced blinds: (popping, sloppy whistle stops, etc. must be ironed-out first.)



    REMEDIAL HANDLING SKILLS /WHISTLE SITS

    Sharpen the skill in yard first

    Do they understand that the whistle means “sit”? Quickly?

    Teach with rope, then overlay E collar
    Recalls / sit (rope around remote post)
    Sit in route to thrown bumpers
    Sit in route to pile
    Remote sit/ steadiness drills

    Stop to Pile drills: “line” type and “over” type

    Obedience: lead and choke collar, then overlay E collar

    Run with dog and snap sit with lead (Charles Morgan)

    Bird-boy blinds, discuss

    Don’t permit auto-casting

    “Cemetery” blinds: opportunities to blow lots of whistles

    Escape-type collar corrections

    E collar on rump

    Don’t compromise standards!

    CONTROL AT LONG DISTANCE/ CASTING

    Walk behind blinds

    Long – distance wagon wheel casting

    Remote handler / whistle blower

    Use of swim-by / run-by at distance

    Stop and cast over/ in’s on return

    Emergency (against factors) blinds

    Handle “all over the field” procedure (time-out from disobedience)

    No auto-casting. Slow down the pace of the session

    Remote Cast blinds (starting point requiring an angle cast, cast in to water)

    Immediate whistle as info for cast refusal

    Walking base-ball

    Use “Here” after/ in place of toot-toot whistle on attrition/ recalls
    Overlay toot-toot whistle with nick, then “Here”

    Allow dog to get deep of blind, practice recall whistle

    • punctuated toot… toot… toot whistle (vs. trilled whistle)



    • note: down wind fade tendency on recall whistle



    • teach disciplined recall whistle: “here” nick “here”… toot-toot whistle “here” nick “here”…toot-toot whistle nick “here”…toot-toot whistle. watch for effort on recall.



    Direction changes:

    • “Dog – leg” blinds
    • Split back pile drill (as lining or remote casting)
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  4. #4
    Senior Member CodyC's Avatar
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    Wow, Thanks a lot. I definitely like the idea of following the dog to the blind, makes handling easier in the early stages.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CodyC View Post
    Wow, Thanks a lot. I definitely like the idea of following the dog to the blind, makes handling easier in the early stages.
    . think deeper...
    following young dog not about making handling easy, it's about getting into dogs face/head. Distance weakens our influence over them.
    .
    Have fun.
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  6. #6
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    If your interested, the info I pasted above comes from a training seminar manual written several years ago.
    If you click on this link you will be downloading a copy of it in MS Word.
    .
    http://www.weebegoldens.com/John%20C...ter_manual.doc
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
    "Smoke" Smokin Auggies Menace, QAA (2003- )(retired nut case, ask Rando)
    "Simba" Humewood Simba (1999-2014)(my 1st dog)

    .
    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
    Grazie




  7. #7
    Senior Member CodyC's Avatar
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    Cool Man. I will check it out

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sabireley's Avatar
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    Momementum is so important at this stage that you want to be careful not to squash it. As long as go, stop, come are solid, just require a direction change when you give a cast. If the dog changes direction, let it go and enjoy the cast. You can work on precision over time. If you get no direction change or the wrong cast, stop and try again. Walking out behind the dog can certainly help.

  9. #9
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    Do's: Set blinds such that you have a reasonable expectation of completing them in 2-3 whistles/cast.
    Prior to running the blind establish boundaries for the line to the blind based on the dog's ability.

    Don'ts: Don't sacrifice drive for control, give them a chance to run,
    Don't hesitate to simplify. Don't get button happy!

    JMO

    Tim
    Last edited by Tim Carrion; 02-23-2014 at 05:03 PM.
    You order a Lab; ask a Golden; but negotiate with a Chesapeake!

  10. #10
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    WoW Breck that was incredible
    And since there's absolutely nuthin' now that could possibly be added in the "Do" dept., would like to offer up a "Don't".

    When you get to your cold blinds, try not to,..err, I mean DON'T forget where you planted the blind the day before
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

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