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Thread: I like a discussion

  1. #1
    Senior Member jacduck's Avatar
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    Default I like a discussion

    Talking with folks at Port Arthur RC HT this weekend and a light popped on. One heavily discussed topic was entries and overload (imagine that). As an aside, Port Arthur did a great job again. THANKS!

    My light bulb in a balloon thingy is. MN should require 6 passes per year to Q to run. 4 of those passes may be by a pro handler. The other 2 must be done by the amateur owner with no pro co-owners allowed. Thereafter any handler may run the pup at MN.

    Justification is IMHO titles are steps up the ladder for breeders and money in their pocket so to speak. Therefore they have pros do the field work and they both reap benefits. I have no issues with business enterprises or business plans, just trying to take some of the pressure off the Hunt test game that was started for primarily the Ams and has grown way beyond that intent by entrepreneurs.

    Yes I believe the field side of the breeds has benefited greatly from our game and the associated breeders and pros. Further I have no interest in what or how much money MN or AKC gain or lose in such an endeavor so that could be left out of discussion. If handlers, owners and clubs agree on something and put it forward the committees will be forced to read the hand writing on the wall.

    What are your thoughts?
    John C aka jacduck

    Do you really want to increase entries at the Junior Hunt Test level? Simply put a limit on entries and everyone will flock to JR and fight over how to get in and what to change to make it fair for all !!!!!

    "Duck hunter's minds are like concrete. All mixed up and permanently set."

  2. #2
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    I think that would further the problem because it would take entries in more tests because that am handler of the dog is not used to running the dog and the dog ain't used to him. I think a much better solution would be to create a MN qual test. Give clubs an incentive to put one on by letting them charge higher entry fees so that it could be lucrative for the club. It would still be cheaper than running 6 tests for the owner too. Everyone wins. Make the test super challenging and only give 2 shots within a calendar year to qual. That way only the best make it to the show and judges don't have to watch hundreds of dogs.

  3. #3
    Senior Member pupaloo's Avatar
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    I don't think you will be able to reduce entries. MN is a technically hunt test; hunt tests are individually judged to a standard instead of being a competition-if you qualify you can run. If you want less entries, make the qualifications harder to achieve. Or, change the MN to a competition and run regional eliminations first-then you can say the best X number of dogs can run at MN.
    Marlana Smith
    APR SHR TDK's Dusty Gunslinger JH - "Churchill"
    CPR Max's Black Diamond Girl Scout JH - "Scout"

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    An owner-handled-passes requirement to qualify for the Master National has been proposed, and voted down, I believe, years ago.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

  5. #5

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    Prior to the 2013 rule change allowing limited entries does anyone know if there was ever a MH test that was cancelled because of too many entries and all the logistics that go with it? Were there any handlers that didn't get to finish a MH test because of the same? If so how often did this happen?

  6. #6
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powder1 View Post
    Prior to the 2013 rule change allowing limited entries does anyone know if there was ever a MH test that was cancelled because of too many entries and all the logistics that go with it? Were there any handlers that didn't get to finish a MH test because of the same? If so how often did this happen?
    I am aware of tests that were cancelled as well as some that finished on Monday, which I assume made it so some folks could not finish. Not often, primarily because there was a fairly short window between changing the requirements and adding the MNH titles and adding the limits, but it did happen.

  7. #7

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    Thank you. Do you know which tests and when? I'd like to do some research on the specifics. Do you know if the tests you are remembering were a result of too many entries, weather, judges being being extra nice carrying dogs, etc?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    I can remember the most disastrous hunt test I've ever worked/attended, and it was one my club held back in Dec. 2006, before limits but shortly after the split had been mandated by AKC. The club was hosting the 2007 Master National, so that kicked up entries to way more than we'd ever had and we had to split and scramble for extra judges/birds, etc. But there were a few other things that contributed to the perfect storm of a disaster.

    First being holding a test in Dec. This is, IMO, the absolute worst time of year in our area (N. Va.) for 3 reasons: unpredictable weather (temperature anywhere from 70s down to teens), way too little daylight, and way too hard to get volunteers at that time of year with hunting season in full swing, Christmas and holiday pressure. We had to split entries; remember back then that was fairly new and in our case our closing was less than a week from the test so we didn't have enough time to plan for the amount of entries we had. It was a scramble for extra help, equipment, judges/birds and we were woefully understaffed. It was unusually cold for Dec. in VA, snow on the ground and ice on the ponds; I think the temps. contributed to many no show volunteers. When it's nasty out, you really need more help than normal, too. You can't start before 8 am and even then, it's not fully light, not to mention it starts getting dark around 3:30 pm. At both sunrise and sunset, the sun is so low in the sky the glare makes visibility a huge issue, esp. on water.

    We did get through the weekend but our club suffered a terrible reputation after that test that it took a lot of time to rebuild. Everything that could go wrong, did: from the weather to the volunteers, you name it. Even though we'd gotten extra grounds so we had enough land, the two test sites were about a half hour apart, causing even more delays. I didn't have master dogs then, but marshaled at Master and my main memory from that event was short tempers and thinking I never wanted to work at another HT.
    Last edited by Julie R.; 02-24-2014 at 12:31 PM.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacduck View Post
    Justification is IMHO titles are steps up the ladder for breeders and money in their pocket so to speak. Therefore they have pros do the field work and they both reap benefits.
    No way breeders are putting any money in their pocket.
    Everyone knows that you can only lose money when breeding dogs.

  10. #10

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    Thanks Julie, It sounds like that was the perfect storm and it's awesome you guys were still able to complete the test and everyone got to run. Great job. My questions still out there, I'm looking for some stats to put together.

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