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Thread: Limits: discussion from a practical aspect

  1. #101
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    We have seen a plethora of solutions & arguments for and against each. Everything from pro vs amateur to lottery systems to entry in steps.

    Clubs limit because of lack of volunteers, lack of grounds or not wanting to deal with the hassle of last minute splits & partially full flights (money). The last two are not going to change. The first has a solution=more volunteers.

    What does it take from a volunteer standpoint to put on another Master test?
    2 judges (thanks to their tireless dedication to the game=readily available)
    3 marshals (ideal)
    4 flyer shooters (to allow breaks)
    4 hired bird technicians

    My question: Can a club expand limits to add another Master flight? Or does the AKC not allow this?

    In the cases of filling a flight in less than 24 hours an ample amount of time is available. If a club chair had 10-15 new volunteers willing to work 2 days would they consider opening another flight? My guess is that most clubs want more participation rather than less. If there are enough dogs to fill another flight then we are back to lack of grounds.
    Clubs can, and must, add additional flights if they go over the proscribed limits. That's why many clubs wanted the option to limit entries. I can think of several clubs that simply do not have the land to handle more than 2 master flights. And while your manpower list is correct it does not address the event management issue of coordinating the additional flights, getting additional judges, and on, and on . . . .
    Clubs could close much earlier and give themselves more time to prepare. But that does not change the bottom line. There is only so much land, and only so many volunteers. The solution is more clubs, putting on more events. See the new Mid-Atlantic club in VA which will host it's first HT this spring. The sport is growing and that's a good thing. But growing pains can be a bitch.

  2. #102
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    I've been following this thread with great fascination.
    Does your dog know if he's running in a Master National event or non sanctioned regular event ? As an amateur having for the most part trained my dogs myself, I'm quite content training and persuing a MH title at my own pace. I do this for my own enjoyment and time spent with my dogs. They love to train as much as they love running a test. Bottom line is I don't know if we will see the same pressure in the northeast as the southern and western states are experiencing. I can understand the frustration of getting closed out to a goal you are working toward though I welcome the professionals who are part of Hunt testing and value their participation,help and service assisting us all better ourselves to a common bond. Perhaps time will dictate higher entrance fees, lower interest in being a MN club thus opening up multiple lower venue entry opportunities for clubs to run more events and pay our bills or maybe the Master National should be split in pieces around the country just like our events.
    As a regular fella holding a full time career and a love to be outdoors with my dogs I'm loving the journey but have not achieved a MH title as of yet. I don't know how much I care about Master Nationals knowing how much time and work it takes just getting to Master title status as I try to do it primarily on my own. So I'll continue to watch this situation evolve with great interest but my dogs are happy running marks while training or at tests we are able or lucky to enter. As for my club we are happy to do our part with limited entries for now rather than stick pencils in our eyes trying to do the impossible. Sounds like growing pains to me.
    Last edited by Madluke; 02-26-2014 at 09:30 PM.

  3. #103
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    This horse has been soundly beaten. Lots of good suggestions, but, nothing can be done to adopt them here. Either the Retriever Hunt Test Advisory Comm (RHTAC) or the Performance Events Dept at AKC will have to act on the issue(s). The real place to start is with the RHTAC. They can serve as a "bridge" between the clubs and participants and the AKC. Somebody needs to write up the problem and their solution and send it in. That will put the issue on the "docket" and at least the discussion can begin.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    This horse has been soundly beaten. Lots of good suggestions, but, nothing can be done to adopt them here. Either the Retriever Hunt Test Advisory Comm (RHTAC) or the Performance Events Dept at AKC will have to act on the issue(s). The real place to start is with the RHTAC. They can serve as a "bridge" between the clubs and participants and the AKC. Somebody needs to write up the problem and their solution and send it in. That will put the issue on the "docket" and at least the discussion can begin.
    I sent EE a suggestion that was forwarded on to the RTHAC and AKC. It was simply to allow clubs to institute a wait list that would automatically fill pre-closing scratches as they occur. It won't make more land and resources available for clubs that have practical limits. And it won't totally resolve the problem for folks that miss an opening. But it will make it easier and more equitable for folks to to fill in for those that decide not to run before entries close. Should be easy for EE to administer. If you think it has merit let the RTHAC know. Small steps.

    Bob Swift

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    This horse has been soundly beaten. Lots of good suggestions, but, nothing can be done to adopt them here. Either the Retriever Hunt Test Advisory Comm (RHTAC) or the Performance Events Dept at AKC will have to act on the issue(s). The real place to start is with the RHTAC. They can serve as a "bridge" between the clubs and participants and the AKC. Somebody needs to write up the problem and their solution and send it in. That will put the issue on the "docket" and at least the discussion can begin.
    I agree that this thread, as well as several others, have exhausted just about all remedies that could help clubs deal with the problem of tests being monopolized by a few individuals with large strings of dogs.

    I would point out, though, that these measures deal with the symptoms and not the problem itself. And that's a shame, because the problem is to the detriment of the sport. Of course, that's just my opinion.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  6. #106
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    # 104 has good points and it could work today prior to closing.
    However EE likely would have added overhead and maybe programing cost. Are we as a group willing to pay for that.

    I think today if someone enters and then withdraws before closing those spots open up. I hope the event secretary's arent trying to choose the replacements. After the close well the event is closed
    And i wouldnt think that will change
    Dk

  7. #107
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    I agree that this thread, as well as several others, have exhausted just about all remedies that could help clubs deal with the problem of tests being monopolized by a few individuals with large strings of dogs.

    I would point out, though, that these measures deal with the symptoms and not the problem itself. And that's a shame, because the problem is to the detriment of the sport. Of course, that's just my opinion.-Paul
    Paul

    What do you consider to be the underlying problem?

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  8. #108
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    I didn't include EE as a "solution agents" because they can act on their own. For instance, much is made of the VIP Entry Service. This isn't required by the regulations and could be dropped or changed if EE simply were to decide to do it. Of course, this would take work and I've not known EE to look for work. After all, work might cause them to break a fingernail. (There, my pet peeve is out of the way.)
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  9. #109
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  10. #110
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    How about 2 closing dates for Limited entry test?

    First close is 3 weeks prior to the test. No individual may be listed as a handler or co-handler for more than 10% of the entry(ie 6 dogs for a 60 dog limit))
    After this date anyone can enter any number of dogs, or additional dogs, as space allows until the normal close date roughly12 days prior to the test.

    Easier than a wait list.
    JMO

    Tim
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