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Thread: Limits: discussion from a practical aspect

  1. #111
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    I don't think this one has been brought up....NO refunds once you are entered ,(unless bitch in season or injury) even if the event has not closed...... DISCLAIMER I have not thought through this at all , but just popped into my head
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  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Paul

    What do you consider to be the underlying problem?

    Ted
    Hi Ted,

    I think the problem is how dogs get qualified to run the MN test. As the event rotates thru the regions, Clubs witihin the region hosting the event are inundated with Master entries. In recent years, there have been right around 800 qualified dogs. This probably equates to 6000+ Master test entries, most of which are concentrated within the host Region. This year it is Region 4's turn. Next year it will be Region 1, and so on.

    I have no problem with the MN itself, but I don't like the way the event impacts the weekend tests and the clubs that organize and host the tests.-Paul
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  3. #113
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    This situation really sounds like an economics 101 case study in supply and demand, when the demand outstrips supply, prices rise to reduce demand, increased profits flowing from increased prices provide incentive for new production and increase supply which intersect with demand and restore market equilibrium.

    "why aren't club's raising their entry fees?"
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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    This situation really sounds like an economics 101 case study in supply and demand, when the demand outstrips supply, prices rise to reduce demand, increased profits flowing from increased prices provide incentive for new production and increase supply which intersect with demand and restore market equilibrium.

    "why aren't club's raising their entry fees?"
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  5. #115
    Senior Member Cowtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    This situation really sounds like an economics 101 case study in supply and demand, when the demand outstrips supply, prices rise to reduce demand, increased profits flowing from increased prices provide incentive for new production and increase supply which intersect with demand and restore market equilibrium.

    "why aren't club's raising their entry fees?"
    Price isn't the only component of that equation or the only way to satisfy demand. .

    In economies or with regard to goods and services, who raises price with the goal of reducing demand anyway?
    Last edited by Cowtown; 03-02-2014 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #116
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    [QUOTEThis situation really sounds like an economics 101 case study in supply and demand, when the demand outstrips supply, prices rise to reduce demand, increased profits flowing from increased prices provide incentive for new production and increase supply which intersect with demand and restore market equilibrium.

    "why aren't club's raising their entry fees?"][/QUOTE]

    My guess is if you did that,,,that mostly pro run dogs would show up since most of their customers could handle the price increase.
    The weekend warrior may not and that's who the game was made for.

    There really is a simple solution as long as you cn accept that life ain't fair.

    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 03-02-2014 at 07:32 AM.
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  7. #117
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    I don't think this one has been brought up....NO refunds once you are entered ,(unless bitch in season or injury) even if the event has not closed...... DISCLAIMER I have not thought through this at all , but just popped into my head
    Other than mandated refunds for bitches in season, injury, etc. clubs are free to formulate their refund policy as long as that policy is published in advance. (Quoting the rule book from memory.) The full refund prior to closing w/o penalty is an EE policy and presumably could be changed at a club's request. Before we started using EE our club's policy was that once an entry and payment were received they became "the property of the club" and were subject to the standard AKC regs. Otherwise if you pulled out just before closing you were out the fee. We have not bothered to request a change in the EE policy because the issues that caused us to go with the no-refund policy resolved themselves.

  8. #118
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    In a Hunting Test, Is the name on the EE entry required to be the person actually handling the dog?

    What's to stop owners from each entering their own dogs and then on game day, one handler shows up with all of them?

    A lot of well-intentioned solutions involving some sort of restriction on "people" ... pros, amateurs with multiple dogs, etc., etc. ... but all leave ways to be circumvented. And the problem will remain; "not enough entry spots for the number of people who want to enter so some will get shut out".

    Seems like a viable approach would be to create more tests that are not attractive to the large masses;

    Let's take the emphasis off "pros" (read: those with a large number of entries) and focus on the test itself. What if every Master National Club were required to put on one test per year that did NOT qualify for MN. This could be one of their customary 2 per year OR it could be in addition. Club's choice.

    This would drastically thin out the entries at those tests and provide an opportunity for those who are just chasing the MH and not interested in the National test. Opportunities for those wanting to qualify for the MN would be fewer, but that might be a good thing, IMO. Maybe there wouldn't be 700 or 800 dogs qualifying each year and those that need a dozen tries to qualify will just have to try again next year. (There ARE some who think the MN is in danger of losing some prestige as more and more dogs are qualifying.)

    Yes, it would take some amending of other AKC rules but it might be a good thing all around. OR ... as I said, I haven't put a lot of thought into it.

    JS


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  9. #119
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    I don't have a solution for the problem, however, I can offer my opinion.

    The closest master HT to me is a two hour drive. I have made the two hour drive and my dog went out in the first series (first dog that ran) and I stayed the remainder of the weekend to help with the HT. I was already there and had already booked a room, etc. If I'm at a HT and the hosting club needs someone to pitch in and help out then I will gladly offer to help out in any capacity needed. If I'm a member of the club hosting the event then I expect to be assisting in some capacity all weekend.

    Now, if I attempt to enter an event and its already filled up, then don't expect to see this amateur/weekend warrior marshalling, shooting fliers, throwing marks, etc. for you. I will be somewhere else enjoying myself. I'm not going to donate an entire weekend and spend a couple hundred bucks just so I can work for free for two days so that others may participate in an event that I was unable to enter due to entries being limited.

    Lonnie Spann
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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Dogs View Post
    I sent EE a suggestion that was forwarded on to the RTHAC and AKC. It was simply to allow clubs to institute a wait list that would automatically fill pre-closing scratches as they occur. It won't make more land and resources available for clubs that have practical limits. And it won't totally resolve the problem for folks that miss an opening. But it will make it easier and more equitable for folks to to fill in for those that decide not to run before entries close. Should be easy for EE to administer. If you think it has merit let the RTHAC know. Small steps.

    Bob Swift
    I have already sent EE a reguest to add a waiting list to handle pre-closing scratches, just like you have. I think other clubs should put pressure on them as well...from a programming standpoint it would be very easy to do. The problem as I see it is competition...there is NONE. Man, I wish I had the time because now would be the time to do it.

    At our next club meeting, we are going to discuss making a recommendation to push up the ladder to allow the Hunt Test Secretary to accept entries after close to fill scratches. The waiting list from EE, if it is implemented, could be passed on to the club. Something else other clubs may want to consider suggesting. This does not solve the limited entries issue, but at least allows clubs to get very close to filling their 60/90/120 dog limits without losing out on funds due to late scratches.

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