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Thread: Single T and Double T distances

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    Junior Member derrekg123's Avatar
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    Default Single T and Double T distances

    What do you guys recommend? I've been told that a TT does not need to be much longer than 50 yards. Do you guys agree?

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    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Single T establish a 20 yd. center line at 10 yd establish your T with piles out about 6 yds.
    Double T establish a 80 yd. center line place your T's about 20 yds. apart and the piles out 20 yds.

    The actual distance is subjective, as long as you can keep good momentum down the centerline and the dog doesn't struggle when you cast left or right during the double T. The more separation you have between piles during the double T will help give you time for corrections if the dog attempts to pick up the wrong bumper.
    Last edited by thelast2; 02-24-2014 at 09:01 PM.
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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    100 yards to be effective. I have many posts on how I run t field

    /paul
    Paul Cantrell
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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derrekg123 View Post
    What do you guys recommend? I've been told that a TT does not need to be much longer than 50 yards. Do you guys agree?
    no, I do not agree.
    think about a running dog, over a yard per bound. some dogs well over a yard!
    You want the dog to get running. You want to give lots of free runs to the back.
    THEN... when you want to stop the dog think about the time it takes your brain to toot the whistle, time it takes for dog to hear and put on brakes and get butt on ground. How many yards did the dog go 'tween brain thinking "toot" and dog butt on ground? I know this will vary in field lab vs. show, but still quite a few yards.....

    if your "TT" is too short you will run out of room.

    OR
    are you talking about the smartwork "mini-T" that is not a full T or double T and can be done in a livingroom while watching the TV??
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derrekg123 View Post
    What do you guys recommend? I've been told that a TT does not need to be much longer than 50 yards. Do you guys agree?
    Some good answers so far. As I approach Double T, it follows Mini-T. As Ken rightly pointed out, I do Mini-T at distance measured in feet, not yards. It only gets enough time to set the dynamics in motion to go, stop, cast, and come prior to moving to a full scale T. What constitutes full scale is the question you've asked, and I'm with Paul. 100 yards has proven over a course of decades to be an ideal practical distance to promote adequate momentum, and to work out all the various aspects of T work.

    I run a Single T, and then a Double T. Following that we water force & Swim-by.

    Evan
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    Junior Member derrekg123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    no, I do not agree.
    think about a running dog, over a yard per bound. some dogs well over a yard!
    You want the dog to get running. You want to give lots of free runs to the back.
    THEN... when you want to stop the dog think about the time it takes your brain to toot the whistle, time it takes for dog to hear and put on brakes and get butt on ground. How many yards did the dog go 'tween brain thinking "toot" and dog butt on ground? I know this will vary in field lab vs. show, but still quite a few yards.....

    if your "TT" is too short you will run out of room.

    OR
    are you talking about the smartwork "mini-T" that is not a full T or double T and can be done in a livingroom while watching the TV??
    Thanks Ken,

    I was just interested in peoples opinions and things that are proven to be effective. I was trained on doing the T and TT around the same distances you are talking about. I guess I have a lot more brush mowing in my future to create more room! Would you say that after 100+ yards it is over working the dog? Or is it necessary to even go that far out? I believe after the full TT blinds marked and unmarked should be introduced.
    Last edited by derrekg123; 02-25-2014 at 09:18 AM.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derrekg123 View Post
    Thanks Ken,

    I was just interested in peoples opinions and things that are proven to be effective. I was trained on doing the T and TT around the same distances you are talking about. I guess I have a lot more brush mowing in my future to create more room! Would you say that after 100+ yards it is over working the dog?
    Yes. T and TT both have 100 yard Back piles. More is meaningless fatigue producing distance. Less is inadequate.
    Quote Originally Posted by derrekg123 View Post
    Or is it necessary to even go that far out? I believe after the full TT blinds marked and unmarked should be introduced.
    No. Placing you Back pile further out will only result in more fatigue. As for blinds after T work, that's what Transition is for. Some trainers have decades of experience, and do well with that. I think it's fairer to the dog to make that transition in steps, using a sequence of drills to get the Basically trained dog used to putting his skills to work in a cold blind environment.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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    [QUOTEWhat do you guys recommend? I've been told that a TT does not need to be much longer than 50 yards. Do you guys agree?][/QUOTE]

    I choose to use about 60 to 70 yards for the T and 125 or so for the modified T,,, If a dog has momentum problems it will show up with 50 yrds or 100. it doesn't matter.
    I use other methods to promote momentum

    But may be I can get away with it because I don't use a program.
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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    a old time helpfull hint, that is great this time of year. run your T on the ice of your swim-by pond. Then in a couple weeks do it again with the same piles the dog knows, but is swimming not running. It will be the most easy swim-by you ever do.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derrekg123 View Post
    Thanks Ken,

    I was just interested in peoples opinions and things that are proven to be effective. I was trained on doing the T and TT around the same distances you are talking about. I guess I have a lot more brush mowing in my future to create more room! Would you say that after 100+ yards it is over working the dog? Or is it necessary to even go that far out? I believe after the full TT blinds marked and unmarked should be introduced.
    A hundred yards gives the dog time to show both understanding of the lesson being taught, lack of effort, confusion all while keeping it short enough to get enough reps in to promote learning. Longer blinds will come later.

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

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