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Thread: Michael Ellis - New DVD

  1. #21
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzos Mom View Post
    When "teaching" concepts, there are some of us who don't want to pressure our dogs into compliance but rather use motivational rewards. There is definitely a time and a place for the ecollar.
    By your use of "'teaching' concepts," 'fraid your naivete's showing. Unless your idea of a "concept" is a single marked retrieve. Do you know how "not to pressure (y)our dog into compliance" with a middle indent retired triple, or an in-line triple with middle gun retired? Or a hip-pocket thrown into the flier station? What's your "motivational reward" for any of those? Or how would you use (or not) the e-collar in trying to master those concepts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzos Mom View Post
    I'm inclined to think that the paraphrase is taken out of context. Yes, field training has successfully used the collar to incorporate training better than the way most people first used the concept of the ecollar; however, I believe ME is now using a much more effective way of ecollar training with much less fallout if any.
    Again, "much less fallout" relative to whom and for teaching just what, exactly, in terms of advanced training?

    Come back with a report on Mr. Ellis' progress (which he undoubtedly will make as an outstanding obedience trainer) when you have a better grasp of how retriever trainers use the e-collar in advancing their dogs instead of limiting "fallout."

    MG

  2. #22
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Traditional Retriever Training is not all that she doesn't understand.
    Michael Ellis is NOT a 2Q believer, or trainer.

    He has even come out and said in plain English, that you really can't train a dog by using nothing but Positive Reinforcement.

    Start watching at the 35 minute mark.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

  3. #23
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enzos Mom View Post
    My 'lack of understanding' ... that's a huge assumption on your part.
    Reading your posts, you're either advocating something that really doesn't need an advocate, or you don't understand how a retriever trainer really trains.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 03-04-2014 at 07:40 AM.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #24
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    don't count Ellis out because anything to do with the collar. check out his DVD's on the topic and you'll see pretty quickly that he absolutely gets the concepts...
    I totally agree.

    I am interested in what he says.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  5. #25
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I've posted links to Ellis many times. In fact, to the above video itself.

    He has a really simple system of markers and communication that I find very useful with dogs of all shapes and sizes.

    He is a good communicator and puts the science into English for you. He also has a vast amount of knowledge that sounds like it's based on experience and extensive research.

    If he is able to address some of the common issues in early retriever development using his system, I think people would benefit.

    From there his philosophy on pressure is very similar if not exactly the same as the nationally accepted retriever programs.
    Darrin Greene

  6. #26
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    I totally agree.

    I am interested in what he says.
    He has a three part series available streaming from leerburg for about $75 George.
    Darrin Greene

  7. #27
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    I don't think that Enzo's Mom said that Michael Ellis is a 2Q trainer.

    I do believe that she is praising him for using all four quadrants.
    Last edited by gdgnyc; 03-04-2014 at 07:52 AM.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  8. #28
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    He has a three part series available streaming from leerburg for about $75 George.
    I haven't visited his website for a while but I really like what he says. And as you say, he is an excellent communicator.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  9. #29
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    He has a three part series available streaming from leerburg for about $75 George.
    What should I look for? I'm on the website now.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  10. #30
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    I don't think that Enzo's Mom said that Michael Ellis is a 2Q trainer.

    I do believe that she is praising him for using all four quadrants.
    Read it again.

    I do believe that she is incorrectly praising him for NOT using two of the quadrants, and simultaneously (and also incorrectly) accusing Traditional Retriever Trainers of ONLY using those same two quadrants that she doesn't like.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

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