The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 94

Thread: Michael Ellis - New DVD

  1. #41
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,652

    Default

    In the training world individuals in each discipline thinks the're discipline is the most difficult to master,,, the retriever world is often the most closed minded about how to train a dog,, not quite sure why tht is. But it still WAY behind in puppy development,, which I am seeing as one of the most crucial periods in the dogs life in which a trainer should capitalize on.
    This is very important to overcome:close-mindedness. There are many ways to train a retriever. Just look at Hillman's DVD how popular it has become. Who would have thought some would follow this program and all for the better. And how great is it that we now train the pup right away rather than wait like it mentions in James Lamb Free's book. "It is safe to start a few simple retrieves at 8 or 9 months!!!""but save your own time by waiting until he is full 12 months old." How far have we come! As I said in my other post let us hear others out. You just never know!IMO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83047
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey
    http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=83051



    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  2. #42
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    This is the way I read her post. The lady was just looking for other ways to train that were less at first. If there is and Ellis can produce, then let us hear it out. IMO
    I think the part getting missed and the reason I said she knows little about a "retriever trainer" is that we pretty much ALL use motivational techniques in the teaching phase. Teach, force, re-enforce is probably one of the top 2 adages known within the sport.

    There's nothing revolutionary about Ellis. He's never won a world championship, even in his chosen discipline. Everything I've ever heard him say is fairly well accepted theory.

    He's just an exceptional communicator, which makes him very easy to watch and understand. I think he will make an excellent DVD. Whether or not it ever catches on in a mainstream way remains to be seen due to his lack of experience / notoriety in the retriever sports.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Deeeeetroit
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzos Mom View Post
    No doubt. Everyone can choose to use the tools in the manner that works for them. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
    This is absolutely untrue! There is ONLY 1 WAY. That is the way that it is done here and everyone who is anyone does it. Do not come here spouting ideas unless you have personally titled multiple dogs in FT. You will either adhere to this by breaking you down with verbal personal attacks or you will just leave the boards.

    On another note - We need to increase our membership in the FT, HT clubs. How can we get more people to join.

    My suggestion - Don't pull the pin!

  4. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Deeeeetroit
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    This is very important to overcome:close-mindedness. There are many ways to train a retriever. Just look at Hillman's DVD how popular it has become. Who would have thought some would follow this program and all for the better. And how great is it that we now train the pup right away rather than wait like it mentions in James Lamb Free's book. "It is safe to start a few simple retrieves at 8 or 9 months!!!""but save your own time by waiting until he is full 12 months old." How far have we come! As I said in my other post let us hear others out. You just never know!IMO
    You Fool! read post above. 1 WAY. 1 WAY ONLY!

  5. #45
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Burlington, Vermont
    Posts
    11,394

    Default

    totaly off topic but this jiggered a memory. did Fred from sit means sit ever go far with the dog he was running in hunt tests a few years back?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  6. #46
    Senior Member achiro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Enid, OK
    Posts
    2,074

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gdluck View Post
    This is absolutely untrue! There is ONLY 1 WAY. That is the way that it is done here and everyone who is anyone does it. Do not come here spouting ideas unless you have personally titled multiple dogs in FT. You will either adhere to this by breaking you down with verbal personal attacks or you will just leave the boards.

    On another note - We need to increase our membership in the FT, HT clubs. How can we get more people to join.

    My suggestion - Don't pull the pin!
    this is ridiculous and you know it. The funny thing is that it is a two way street. So many "nicey nice" trainers come here spouting off about how abusive current training methods are and how they can get a dog to do anything with tennis shoes and a clicker. As the conversation progresses we always figure out that they really don't know that much about how most successful training is done but have some big preconceived ideas about it. I disagree somewhat with Pete, I think most trainers are very open minded and would do about anything to be more successful. The truth though is that time and time again the conversations just basically boils down to " show me". Talk is cheap as hell and until someone can consistently be successful in the retriever games using other techniques most will stick with what works. Look at Hillmans work with young pups as an example to how success brings change. As far as ME, we'll see what he brings to the table of the retriever world but don't be surprised when it is all said and done that what you see isn't far from stuff already being done.
    "The thing I admire about the rat tail is that it takes commitment. It's not like one day you just decide you want one, you have to grow out that bad boy and you have to repeatedly convince the hairdresser to trust you because it's a great idea."

  7. #47

    Default

    I have used Micheal Ellis Dvd's sense they came out. I have found that starting with his techinics and the using Hillman's retriever methods makes for a great traing system. I hope and will buy the new DVD.
    Tony Williams

  8. #48
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,332

    Default

    People are watching Hillman's stuff, but how many of the "old guard" have actually embraced it? Anyone besides Dennis Voigt?

    I see people on here all the time claiming that they are using and following Hillman, starting with his puppy training DVD, but few actually seem to go the whole 9 yards. When it comes time to force fetch, they switch to something else.

    Then another huge faction is doing traffic cop in addition to, not instead of, what they were doing before.

    I see the new people, the blank slates such as myself, looking at what else is out there but the Old Guard is doing the same old same I think.
    Renee P

  9. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Read it again.

    I do believe that she is incorrectly praising him for NOT using two of the quadrants, and simultaneously (and also incorrectly) accusing Traditional Retriever Trainers of ONLY using those same two quadrants that she doesn't like.
    "Incorrectly praising for not using two of the quads" ... first of all there are plenty of positive only trainers that have accomplished quite a bit in dog sports. So I don't see how that is 'incorrect'. In fact, anyone willing to train with only positives and be successful gets praise in my book. I do not have the patience for positive only training.

    I never accused anyone of using the "two quadrants I don't like" ... I mean, really, who likes to use force on a dog!?! When you tell your child to clean their room and they don't do you go ahead and 'force' them to?? That is simply silly. I would rather deplete all my positive resources before having to use force. Advanced training, whether retriever, agility, protection most all will require force to be successful to attain ribbons. I know this, I never stated anything less than that.

  10. #50
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzos Mom View Post
    "Incorrectly praising for not using two of the quads" ... first of all there are plenty of positive only trainers that have accomplished quite a bit in dog sports. So I don't see how that is 'incorrect'. In fact, anyone willing to train with only positives and be successful gets praise in my book. I do not have the patience for positive only training.

    I never accused anyone of using the "two quadrants I don't like" ... I mean, really, who likes to use force on a dog!?! When you tell your child to clean their room and they don't do you go ahead and 'force' them to?? That is simply silly. I would rather deplete all my positive resources before having to use force. Advanced training, whether retriever, agility, protection most all will require force to be successful to attain ribbons. I know this, I never stated anything less than that.
    Still, you're digging - excavating, without recourse for extricating - yourself deeper and deeper.

    MG

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •