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Thread: "TONE" - where and why?

  1. #11
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of using it as a "warning". It reminds me of those mothers who "count" at their children to behave.

    I can see it being very useful in the other ways described, silent commands while hunting etc.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  2. #12
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    I'm not a fan of using it as a "warning". It reminds me of those mothers who "count" at their children to behave.

    I can see it being very useful in the other ways described, silent commands while hunting etc.
    Me either, I use the tone on my TT but have never used the Pager ( vibrate ) on the dogtra. To me the vibrate is still somewhat of a "weak" correction.

  3. #13
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    I use the vibrate feature when I want my dog to change direction when quartering. I also use it as a silent "whistle" to get my dog to look back and take a directional cast, again when quartering. I see it as nagging when used as a correction or as a warning that a correction is coming. That said, I have been guilty of using the vibrate feature as a soft correction when my girl hesitates to respond to a recall or sit whistle.

    Canuck

  4. #14
    Senior Member mtncntrykid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canuck View Post
    I see it as nagging when used as a correction or as a warning that a correction is coming. That said, I have been guilty of using the vibrate feature as a soft correction when my girl hesitates to respond to a recall or sit whistle.

    Canuck
    Kudo's to you for admitting. I find it amusing that people say they are against it when we all know that there is always going to be a time when your dog hesitates and you have to act forcefully, whether it be a buzz on the collar or a holler at the top of your lungs or a threatening jesture, etc. I personally have always set a standard that I will give a command ONE time without repeating. My dogs have always known that if they hear the buzz, the command has been given and they better get their azz back to business at hand. Where I hunt is public land and it never fails that someone up or down stream starts hollering at their dis-obedient dog with profainities included. I wish for my grand childrens sake that they would train their dogs with an e-collar that gives them control at a distance.

  5. #15
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtncntrykid View Post
    Kudo's to you for admitting. I find it amusing that people say they are against it when we all know that there is always going to be a time when your dog hesitates and you have to act forcefully, whether it be a buzz on the collar or a holler at the top of your lungs or a threatening jesture, etc. I personally have always set a standard that I will give a command ONE time without repeating. My dogs have always known that if they hear the buzz, the command has been given and they better get their azz back to business at hand. Where I hunt is public land and it never fails that someone up or down stream starts hollering at their dis-obedient dog with profainities included. I wish for my grand childrens sake that they would train their dogs with an e-collar that gives them control at a distance.
    Looks like the OP has answered his own question. Get the new collar of your choice with a buzz or vibrate option and use it as you see fit. If the command has been given ONE time and the dog slips, the buzz is no different than a repeat, be it a hollar or a hand signal. My dogs are taught early on to sit on a whistle and look at me and read my body language. My arms folded across my chest is enough. Then a cast. That is if I am guiding them to a blind retrieve at a HT.
    When we hunt, I should drop the bird so they see it. If it sails and I have to handle I usually have no more idea where it is then they do. That's why I employ a dog with a nose and desire and let them do what they were bred to do. A buzz is of little help.
    Last edited by JDogger; 02-28-2014 at 11:10 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #16
    Senior Member mtncntrykid's Avatar
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    " the buzz is no different than a repeat, be it a hollar or a hand signal"

    Agreed......but it is not the "same" command given by my voice and the dog quickly learns that there won't be a third. I understand your handling on flyers but let's say you shoot a cripple and it is swimming to the middle of the river and the dog isn't going to catch it. You know your going to have to take the boat to get the duck but you have to call your dog off and back before you can go. You give your dog the command to pull off but given the distance away, wind blowing, water splashing around dogs head from swimming, etc ....dog doesn't hear or fails to comply and still goes after the duck.

    What do you do?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtncntrykid View Post
    " the buzz is no different than a repeat, be it a hollar or a hand signal"

    Agreed......but it is not the "same" command given by my voice and the dog quickly learns that there won't be a third. I understand your handling on flyers but let's say you shoot a cripple and it is swimming to the middle of the river and the dog isn't going to catch it. You know your going to have to take the boat to get the duck but you have to call your dog off and back before you can go. You give your dog the command to pull off but given the distance away, wind blowing, water splashing around dogs head from swimming, etc ....dog doesn't hear or fails to comply and still goes after the duck.

    What do you do?
    Blow the come in whistle!
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  8. #18
    Senior Member mtncntrykid's Avatar
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    " You give your dog the command to pull off but given the distance away, wind blowing, water splashing around dogs head from swimming, etc ....dog doesn't hear or fails to comply and still goes after the duck. "

    Whistle doesn't work.

    1/4 - 1/2 mile away is tuff sometimes for a whistle to carry that far.

  9. #19
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtncntrykid View Post
    " You give your dog the command to pull off but given the distance away, wind blowing, water splashing around dogs head from swimming, etc ....dog doesn't hear or fails to comply and still goes after the duck. "

    Whistle doesn't work.

    1/4 - 1/2 mile away is tuff sometimes for a whistle to carry that far.
    Then I guess I'll send the chessie first.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  10. #20
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtncntrykid View Post
    I know what I use it for, strictly a warning to comply to a command that is being challenged. But I have heard people using tone as a training tool much like a whistle is used to command sit. I was curious if there were trainers out there doing this kind of training.
    Like I said, you might want to learn a bit more about classic and operant conditioning as well as back chaining before you move forward. Dog's don't ever think "I'd better get back to business".

    Using the tone as a "warning" is a very common thing I see in pet dog owners who have a collar on the dog but really don't understand how, nor want to use it.

    Pretty simple... Give the command, if no compliance, repeat the command with re-enforcement.

    I have used the tone as a recall command in situations where the person can't be standing on their back porch yelling for the dog at 5 am. It works if it's trained properly.

    It's great for this and works in situations like you mentioned, when the dog can't hear you for some reason. It's not working psychologically the way you think though.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 03-01-2014 at 07:37 AM.
    Darrin Greene

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