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Thread: UKC hunt test info

  1. #1
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    Default UKC hunt test info

    Hi

    New to forum...have had a lab for a little over a year.. we had him trained by full time trainer and he did great this last duck season. He picked up over 250 ducks. Trainer is suggesting we run him in hunt tests this spring. I am a little confused on UKC points system. I understand that your dog has to receive 10 points to get a started retriever title. Can this be accomplished in one hunt test event?

    Thanks in advance for responses....

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    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkey4090 View Post
    Hi

    New to forum...have had a lab for a little over a year.. we had him trained by full time trainer and he did great this last duck season. He picked up over 250 ducks. Trainer is suggesting we run him in hunt tests this spring. I am a little confused on UKC points system. I understand that your dog has to receive 10 points to get a started retriever title. Can this be accomplished in one hunt test event?

    Thanks in advance for responses....
    No, 10 points won't get a SHR title. But 10 points from the SHR title is all that will carry over to latter titles. It takes 20 for SHR. 40 for HR and 100 for HRCH. But only 10 from started carry over. You don't have to get the SHR if you're planning on getting the the others. Make sense?
    Last edited by BlaineT; 03-05-2014 at 09:36 PM.
    HRCH Hudson River Drake (Possom)
    HRCH Hudson River Saying Grace (Gracie)

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    Senior Member wsumner's Avatar
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    You will need 4 passes at the started level to receive a started title (SHR). You will receive 5 championship points for each of the first two passes for a total of 10 points that will go towards your HRCH title. You need a total of 40 championship points to earn a seasoned title (HR). If you earn 10 in started you can only earn 30 more in seasoned (3 passes @ 10 pts each). If you do not have any points at started then you can earn all 40 at seasoned (4 passes @10 pts each). After that all remaining championship points are earned at finished @ 15 points per pass. When you reach 100 total championship points you will earn your HRCH title.

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    Senior Member Joe Brakke's Avatar
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    You can also get a Upland Title with 4 passes in the Upland Field. Most tests do not have this element, just Started, Seasoned and Finished. There is a club here in CO that will hold just a Upland Test on one weekend offering 4 upland tests. In this test, if successful in all 4 you can title as UH in one weekend. I started my dog in Finished and was able to get a HR title and then a HRCH but I needed to pass more Finished tests than if I started my dog in Started or Seasoned. HRCH requires 100 points.
    Joe B.

    Northern Colorado

    HRCH Bella's Devine Independence SH "Indy"
    Lakota Ridge Sage JH "Sage"
    SHR APR KB's Lakota Ridge Delaney JH "Del"
    RIP 2014 Lakotaridge Heartsome Tanner SH "Tanner"
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    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
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    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlaineT View Post
    No, 10 points won't get a SHR title. But 10 points from the SHR title is all that will carry over to latter titles. It takes 20 for SHR. 40 for HR and 100 for HRCH. But only 10 from started carry over. You don't have to get the SHR if you're planning on getting the the others. Make sense?
    This is an important point. Many folks seem to think the SHR title is a prerequisite for HR or HRCH but it isn't. For many years there was no such thing as a started title in HRC. It was just HR and HRCH (as far as weekend testing goes). In my view they added the SHR just to compete with AKC's JH title and maybe to get people to run more Started tests if they weren't ready to run Seasoned.

    This is the reason that the point system seems screwy and is confusing.

    For years this was the point system for HRC:

    Started Pass = 5 points
    Seasoned Pass = 10 points
    Finished Pass = 15 points

    For HR title - 40 points, no more than 10 of which could be from Started
    For HRCH title - 100 points, no more than 40 of which could be from Started and Seasoned combined

    When they created the new SHR title they apparently wanted to require more than 2 passes to get it but in going to 4 passes they couldn't very well award 20 points in Started as that would mean a SHR would only need 2 Seasoned passes to be an HR, so only 10 points from Started carry over toward the HR and HRCH titles in order to preserve the old structure. Clear as mud?

    I see no point in getting the SHR unless you don't think your dog will ever be able to do Seasoned work. The third and fourth Started passes are meaningless once you move up to Seasoned and/or Finished. The only reason I can see why I might get the SHR title on my next puppy would be so both of my daughters could handle the pup twice in Started, which is the only level in which the handler does not have to handle a gun (mine are still too small for that).

    Upland is pretty straightforward. 4 passes for UH and your UH points do not count for SHR, SH or HRCH. They do count for GRHRCH and for things like 500 point club, 1,000 point club, etc.
    ---------------------------------------------
    HRCH "Boomer" MH
    UH HR "Hunter" SH (RIP)

    "When you go to a test or a trial, your dog should be underwhelmed." ~ Evan Graham

    "It is unreasonable to expect a dog to be more precise than you are." ~ Rex Carr

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    Senior Member David McCracken's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=HuntinDawg;1196366

    I see no point in getting the SHR unless you don't think your dog will ever be able to do Seasoned work. The third and fourth Started passes are meaningless once you move up to Seasoned and/or Finished.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree with this logic for the most part. If you are new to HRC, my advice is to run all 4 Started tests and get the SHR title. Run the first 2 tests restraining the dog and allowing one of the judges to shoot as the rules allow. After that, if your dog is steady, run the 3rd and 4th test with you handling the gun. This will give both you and your dog invaluable experience at the line, handling the gun, before moving on to Seasoned. Another reason to get a Started title is because the extra 10 points, while not counting toward your HRCH title, do count toward your 500 points (if you choose to do go that far). The reason that I know this is because when, by my reckoning, Gumbo had 480 points, I called Loretta (she was still there then) at UKC to check my points as I anticipated getting his 500 the next weekend. She said I had 490. When I asked how, she said he had gotten 20 points from Started (he had a SHR) and I was only allowing for 10.
    Carolina American Water Spaniels

    HRCH UH Carolina's Duck Gumbo MHA SHR RN WDS CGC TDI (Gumbo) 1000 Point Club
    UH HR GCH Carolina's Wild March Hare SH JHR RAE OA OAJ WDX CGC TDI (Bunny)
    HR CH Carolina's Running with the Hare SH JHR RN WDX CGC (Blew)

  7. #7
    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David McCracken View Post
    I disagree with this logic for the most part. If you are new to HRC, my advice is to run all 4 Started tests and get the SHR title. Run the first 2 tests restraining the dog and allowing one of the judges to shoot as the rules allow. After that, if your dog is steady, run the 3rd and 4th test with you handling the gun. This will give both you and your dog invaluable experience at the line, handling the gun, before moving on to Seasoned. Another reason to get a Started title is because the extra 10 points, while not counting toward your HRCH title, do count toward your 500 points (if you choose to do go that far). The reason that I know this is because when, by my reckoning, Gumbo had 480 points, I called Loretta (she was still there then) at UKC to check my points as I anticipated getting his 500 the next weekend. She said I had 490. When I asked how, she said he had gotten 20 points from Started (he had a SHR) and I was only allowing for 10.
    I respect your opinion and I can see your point for a new handler trying to iron out the mechanics of handling the dog and gun at the same time. However, I think that is better done in training and I see no reason to ever prove my dog is steady in a Started or Junior test (in other words, when it is not required). I've done it (declined to restrain dog in Started or Junior) and it worked out fine, but what if it didn't? With no means to correct the dog for breaking it is just another opportunity for the dog to learn that it can get away with things in a hunt test IMO. There's no extra credit for a steady dog in Started/Junior so I see no reason to risk it.
    ---------------------------------------------
    HRCH "Boomer" MH
    UH HR "Hunter" SH (RIP)

    "When you go to a test or a trial, your dog should be underwhelmed." ~ Evan Graham

    "It is unreasonable to expect a dog to be more precise than you are." ~ Rex Carr

    "You own what you condone." ~ Mike Lardy

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    Not an expert with UKC, put a couple of HRCH titles on two dogs. Because of their training , retired trial dogs and Master hunters, folks I was training with told me to enter finished. Took awhile to figure out gun issues, silent marks, sitting on bucket, gun safety, hot blinds etc. Should have entered them in seasoned to get handler experience, once they got their first finished passes couldn't drop down . More to HRC then meets the eye! just saying.
    Earl Dillow

  9. #9
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quick question can you still get an SHR title if your dog has already passed a Seasoned test? I let my Mom run her dog in Started as I was judging seasoned this past weekend. Mom put SHR passes on both the dogs she was running. So I told the club She earned her SHR Double Title (Big-Time WATER BATH). Then I sort've remembered that I might've put a Seasoned pass on the dog. I'm worried that if the paperwork doesn't come in the mail; I'll have some explaining to do .
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-06-2014 at 04:16 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
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    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    Not sure but you might have explaining to do. Once you pass an higher stake you cannot earn points in lower stakes but since you can only earn 10 in started anyway I am not sure how they will look at the extra 2 started passes. Good luck with it.

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