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Thread: A great debate question - remote sit

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Confusion only applies to marks

    From page 33 of the Rule Book



    30. In marked retrieves, if a dog, after having been sent to retrieve, (1) returns to his handler before finding the bird, with or without having been called in, except in those cases of confusion of the dog as to whether he was really ordered to retrieve; (2) stops his hunt; or (3) fails to pick the bird up, actually leaving it after finding it, it shall be sufficient cause, unless there exist in the opinion of the Judges valid mitigating circumstances, to justify elimination from the stake.
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  2. #12
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    Yes, while the rule does say that failure to go when sent on a blind retrieve in and of itself justifies elimination from the stake : all the while several cast refusals in other circumstances do not mandate such extreme measures.
    The rationale for this escapes me . I for one do not believe that there is no circumstance where a dog can be confused as to it having been sent on the initial send of a blind..

    Interupted marks and poison birds are two examples......


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  3. #13
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    Thanks for the replies and it appears most think that initial cast whether by your side or to the front you must go.
    I hadn't thought about the idea that ht and Ft venues may be different in the rule books.

    Richard wanted to address the merits of such a test and thats another subject however the question was about the rules or subjectivity of judging

    Thanks all
    Dk

  4. #14
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    Penn

    I believe your interpretation is incorrect.

    From the Rule Book
    Ted--Our interpretation is the same. I was only pointing out that the FT rules do allow for some tiny bit of leeway where the HT rules do not. Where I see this in the rule book:
    39. A dog sent on a blind retrieve shall at once
    proceed in the general direction of the line given by the handler. A dog that fails to do so shall, in the absence of unusual extenuating circumstances, be eliminated from the stake.
    I certainly don't know what the extenuating circumstances would be in this fact set--and doubt there would be any--but was just pointing out that there is some slight chance that a judge would be within the rules not to eliminate the dog.

  5. #15
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kress View Post
    Thanks for the replies and it appears most think that initial cast whether by your side or to the front you must go.
    I hadn't thought about the idea that ht and Ft venues may be different in the rule books.

    Richard wanted to address the merits of such a test and thats another subject however the question was about the rules or subjectivity of judging

    Thanks all
    Dk
    Dave,

    You are a good and experienced judge, what is your call on what it is? A no go or cast refusal? I think that after several attempts, as you mentioned in the original post, you end up in the same place, but don't leave us hanging without giving us your thoughts.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    Ted--Our interpretation is the same. I was only pointing out that the FT rules do allow for some tiny bit of leeway where the HT rules do not. Where I see this in the rule book:

    I certainly don't know what the extenuating circumstances would be in this fact set--and doubt there would be any--but was just pointing out that there is some slight chance that a judge would be within the rules not to eliminate the dog.

    A dog fight, a flyer loose on the grounds perhaps. But, not confusion as to whether to go or not.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    A dog fight, a flyer loose on the grounds perhaps. But, not confusion as to whether to go or not.
    Absolutely! I am with you. It would have to be something really freaky. Believe me, if I were ever sitting in a chair next to you, this is not something we would spend a second arguing about.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    Absolutely! I am with you. It would have to be something really freaky. Believe me, if I were ever sitting in a chair next to you, this is not something we would spend a second arguing about.

    Unfortunately, that sentiment does not appear to be universal.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kress View Post
    The question: the judges do a remote sit/ send on a land blind
    By remote i mean the dog is put facing you some reasonable yards away- the handler walks back to a point and starts the blind.

    On the initial instruction to the dog be it silent, verbal or whatever the dog doesn't go. Say it doesn't go after several attempts and then goes thus making progress toward the blind.

    Is it cast refusals or a no-go
    Thanks in advance
    Dk
    HT it is a no go. The key here is it is the initial cast and no distintion is made for an initial cast being at your side or remote.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  10. #20
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    Practice , practice , practice. Train harder than trialing. I have seen more mechanical mess-ups at Hunt Tests, too cutesy scenarios , than in your face , there it is - FT. What about remote cast no-see blinds over 15 foot dirt mounds? Trained and run many in FT Qualifying/Amateurs. Send the dog, dog goes over top, you are allowed to handle from mound top. Common in MN, ND, WI , NY , DE.

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