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Thread: A great debate question - remote sit

  1. #31
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labman63 View Post
    On that note how do you that judge feel about a toot toot in to get dog in a better position then cast on a blind? (not remote but just a blind) I feel like you purposely did not make progress to the blind. I have done it once or twice and got away with it but it was because the dog could not see me. I have seen it done right out in the open.
    Not a fan of excessive come ins, but the idea is to be working as a team to locate the downed game, and if a quick come in is going to help us find the downed bird, use it. For me a blind is 3 sections and all parts equal the whole blind. Square em to make better progress, OK.


    Now bring him/her in 10- 20 yds, different story..
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Kress View Post
    For # 23

    A come in toot at a ft is a bad thing- make progress to the blind

    In the HT venue a bad habit has developed in some areas. The toot toot in is more handler error than most want. A lower score on the blind but a carry equals to a degree the blind must have been ok.
    Just my thoughts
    Dk

    The phrase "progress to the blind" is not in the Rule Book. What support is there for this position?
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    The phrase "progress to the blind" is not in the Rule Book. What support is there for this position?
    Correct,It's not in the book. However depending on the situation IMHO the handler may be using come in whistle as a training aid

  4. #34
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Correct,It's not in the book. However depending on the situation IMHO the handler may be using come in whistle as a training aid
    I surrender. Judge however you want. Ignore overall performance. Find all the little faults you want and drop dogs. And see how much people want to ask you to judge or run under you
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  5. #35
    Senior Member DEN/TRU/CRU's Avatar
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    Wait a minute, the dog blows right over the bird and you stop him. He is looking at you and you give a tweet tweet and he comes to the bird. Is he not making progress to the blind???
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  6. #36
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    There is no doubt that under the FT rules as written failure to go when initially sent on a blind is a cause for mandatory elimination....
    There is no ALLOWANCE for confusion by the dog .

    My point is not that a judge may make an exception, it is that the rule itself is not based on the realities of dog training .
    Don't tell me that a dog can not be confused, just say that the're in no allowance for an exception for the confusion under the rule as written.

    john
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmmm Cast and doesn't go (initial send) = No Go. Blow a whistle then cast dog=cast refusal. So I'd be blowing a sit whistle before I ever attempted to cast the dog, accomplishes 2 things 1) tells the dog he's running a blind 2) Turns a possible no-go into a CR (which is not an automatic out). If I get a CR might do a toot toot toot to get the dog moving in, then recast. It's all about how one chooses to play the game .

    That wouldn't fly with me, sit whistle OK but if the dog doesn't go on the initial send Sorry, it's not a CR it's a No GO. Seems like your trying to avoid the test, kind of like the guy that lets his dog swim past a point with no effort to get on it and can't figure out why he got dropped when he didn't have any cast refusals. When someone chooses to play the game like that it makes callbacks easy.
    Last edited by Todd Caswell; 03-04-2014 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    I surrender. Judge however you want. Ignore overall performance. Find all the little faults you want and drop dogs. And see how much people want to ask you to judge or run under you
    Don't get your panties in a wad Ted, Im agreeing with you{sort of, I think} in that you should judge the overall blind
    However Come in whistles aren't all created equally. If the dog stops on a whistle and in his stopping process goes out of sight into a depression then the come in whistle may be neccessary and should'nt be punished. However if the dog gives some mis casts {he is already leaking oil IMHO} at the start of the blind and is in plain sight and the handler givres him a come in whistle to break his momentum and /or pull him away from some suction, then my interpretation may be that he has quit running the blind and is now training

  9. #39
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Correct,It's not in the book. However depending on the situation IMHO the handler may be using come in whistle as a training aid
    The term "training aid" seems to be pretty liberally interpreted. I think of and judge blinds from a teamwork aspect, and all things being equal, I judge the dogs relative to each other. What does training aid mean? How is a quick "toot-toot" sit and cast any different than sweating a dog on a point before a cast, or the standard two sits on a point before being casted off? Blinds are all about controlling our dog in situations contrived by judges to be as out of control as possible. I don't think a quick come-in whistle and cast is the same as loosing a dog and having to call him back in sight in order to cast, but like I said, it's all relative.

  10. #40
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john fallon View Post
    There is no doubt that under the FT rules as written failure to go when initially sent on a blind is a cause for mandatory elimination....
    There is no ALLOWANCE for confusion by the dog .

    My point is not that a judge may make an exception, it is that the rule itself is not based on the realities of dog training .
    Don't tell me that a dog can not be confused, just say that the're in no allowance for an exception for the confusion under the rule as written.

    john
    I totally agree, I personally think this is a stupid rule that takes judgement out of the hands of the judges. I would like to see the rule redone to more closely follow the marking send rule.

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