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Thread: Progressives Make Us Better

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Magic View Post
    Can't believe no one has pointed out that the EPA was brought into being by that progressive Republican President Nixon in 1970. It's funny how everything positive for the environment is now owned by the "progressives". And that fine progressive President Bush 43 is the one who strengthened conservation initiatives by increasing energy and water reduction goals as much as 50% when compared to past administrations, both D and R. And why wasn't anyone raising hell when he put these measures in place via Executive Order!

    But what do I know? I've only worked for the EPA for the past 14 years implementing some of the projects to meet these lofty "progressive" goals.

    fp
    What you say is true. But then the EPA had it's incisors and canines pulled by another conservative, with congressional help (read lobbyists), of course.

    Bush 43 was quite selective in his iniatives.

    I would give Obama an 'F' on environmental issues and the way the EPA operates under his administration, particularly in the way natural gas fracking seems to have a renewable get out of jail card. -Paul
    Last edited by paul young; 03-06-2014 at 07:46 AM. Reason: added content
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Healthcare is a perfect example of something that needed to change, is the ACA in its current form the answer? I don't know, but if it is not it will evolve into a good solution for the majority of americans. The push back comes because there is nothing given away in it, and those that have used the healthcare system on the insured dime have to pay something now. I like that!!!!
    Menmom, I believe you are incorrect when you say "there is nothing given away in it". Medicaid still exists, and more people have been added to it. Many of the people in Medicaid will still pay nothing for the services. They will still use the emergency room; a study has shown that to be the case. I'm NOT against helping poor people get medical care ... but this is simply to refute your statement that nothing is being given away in the health care law.

    Young people get to stay on their parents' health insurance until age 26 (if their parents have health insurance, of course). Many young people who had insurance before on their own, will generally pay more for it. As a result they may opt out of insurance altogether and pay the fine. Many of the policies for college students have increased in price, or been discontinued because of unreasonable costs. I'd imagine that the students who used this insurance were the ones whose parents did not have coverage to include them (or students 27 or older).

    The law "ordered" health insurors to provide birth control & abortiofacients (sp?) to employees of religious organizations and no charge to employer or employee.

    The health care law, to function, needs universal participation of all age groups, but "waivers" have been issued so that certain employers or groups do not go into the system to provide the actuarial balance needed.

    My confusion over this law just increased. The House voted to delay the individual mandate. 27 Ds voted with the Rs. The POTUS has said he will veto the bill (if the Senate even gets to vote on it). Executive order has delayed the mandate for mid-sized (50-99) employers, and relaxed the requirement for larger employers (they need to only provide 70% coverage for their full-time employees, rather than 100%). The WH issued a statement as to why such a bill would be vetoed:
    The president does not intend to sign it, immediately or otherwise — he promised to veto it.


    “The Administration strongly opposes House passage of H.R. 4118, the Suspending the Individual Mandate Penalty Equals Fairness Act, because the bill would increase health insurance premiums, decrease tax credits, increase the number of uninsured, and shift costs to businesses, workers, and health care providers. R
    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/05/ho...#ixzz2vCH6o3vU

    I can not wrap my mind around the idea of giving delays of compliance and penalties to everyone else, but not to individuals ... especially since the most recent Executive Order delay is until 2017, after the next POTUS election. Even Ezekiel Emmanuel (Rahm's brother), a major progressive "cheerleader" for socialized medicine, stated that this was a political decision.

    I don't think that "progressives make us better." I believe our conscience, our sense of right and wrong, our own life experiences, and, for some, their religious teachings, make individuals compassionate for those less fortunate than themselves.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  3. #33
    Senior Member Matt McKenzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    No not all change has been good, but much of it had to occur. Globalization has made product better because of competition, but on the other hand has taken jobs from us. In the purist form of globalization, workers should move as freely and goods and services, however we no that is not possible due to many reasons, and because of that competition the best and brightest are the only ones with opportunity.

    I'm at an age I don't have to worry about this anymore but our youth have a tough road and most are not prepared for it.
    I'm still afraid I don't understand the point of the original post when you state, "There is not a thread on this site that someone blames progressives for the problems of our country. When in actuality, progressives have made us better, while the conservatives have tried to hold us back."
    We've determined that progressive and conservative through history don't correlate to political party, especially as relates to your list of accomplishments. And you don't believe that all actions labelled "progressive" are necessarily positive. So exactly what is it you are trying to convey? That some change is good and some change is bad? And that sometimes the "good" change is led by Democrats and sometimes by Republicans? And sometimes a thing called "progress" is good for society and sometimes it isn't?
    Well, if that's your position, I agree whole-heartedly!
    Matt McKenzie

    It takes as long as it takes. Sometimes longer.

    "It is better to own a $50,000 dog and have an old truck and crummy equipment than to own $50,000 worth of new equipment and a crummy dog..." EdA

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McKenzie View Post
    I'm still afraid I don't understand the point of the original post when you state, "There is not a thread on this site that someone blames progressives for the problems of our country. When in actuality, progressives have made us better, while the conservatives have tried to hold us back."
    We've determined that progressive and conservative through history don't correlate to political party, especially as relates to your list of accomplishments. And you don't believe that all actions labelled "progressive" are necessarily positive. So exactly what is it you are trying to convey? That some change is good and some change is bad? And that sometimes the "good" change is led by Democrats and sometimes by Republicans? And sometimes a thing called "progress" is good for society and sometimes it isn't?
    What 145 is trying to convey is "Jellyfish have survived for 650 Million years
    without a brain & that there is hope for BHO supporters" .
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  5. #35
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    oh, i think i just remembered what white women used to vote for before abortion........wasn't it prohibition?
    john mccallie

  6. #36
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    Because progressivism embraces the ideal of nationalism and touts the so-called “Third Way” between capitalism and communism, its pedigree is closer to fascism than to communism. Progressivism and fascism share the totalitarian belief that with the proper amount of tinkering, social engineers we will be able to realize a utopian dream of establishing the United State into something where we are all perfectly equal.

    This same mindset lead the early 20th century progressives to a goal which was the creation of a pure race. Now i am not going into this but everyone knows the direction. Such a project/projects of course, could only be overseen and carried out by a wise and omniscient leadership, an intellectual elite endowed with judgment superior to that of the general masses.

    Most people, which are against this grand experiment, would like to know one thing. (However first they are to be labeled as neo-cons, etc.). What is your explanation of utopia and where does it end? Always once a experiment is gained, we just a couple dollars out of your pay each week, and it can be made bigger and better. It NEVER ends.
    Last edited by Dan Storts; 03-06-2014 at 08:11 PM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    The proclivity of a thread on RTF PP to go GDG is well evidenced here. I vote this thread to go to the HOF.

    We could make it a poll.... ?
    1st best GDG... Blue .... GDG HOF!!!
    Then red, yellow, and white, and of course some greenies...
    There has to be some greenies.
    Wanna vote my post the most GDG....? Good... I never gotta Blue...

    We're all in the running regards, JD


    PS if it were a poll some of us should not vote because a vote for ourselves should not count.

    I do think pancakes and MS in the morning....
    Last edited by JDogger; 03-06-2014 at 11:27 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #38
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    jd,
    how can a post be more gdg than mine. sufferegettes(sp) and the women's christian temperance movement is pretty darn gdg?
    respectfully,
    jmc
    john mccallie

  9. #39
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McKenzie View Post
    I'm still afraid I don't understand the point of the original post when you state, "There is not a thread on this site that someone blames progressives for the problems of our country. When in actuality, progressives have made us better, while the conservatives have tried to hold us back."
    We've determined that progressive and conservative through history don't correlate to political party, especially as relates to your list of accomplishments. And you don't believe that all actions labelled "progressive" are necessarily positive. So exactly what is it you are trying to convey? That some change is good and some change is bad? And that sometimes the "good" change is led by Democrats and sometimes by Republicans? And sometimes a thing called "progress" is good for society and sometimes it isn't?
    Well, if that's your position, I agree whole-heartedly!
    That is my position! The knew label for democrats is progress, and most folk on here hate everything about democrats.

    Postponing the mandate is a major mistake, however, because of politics we are not doing what we need to do. Republicans don't want people to sign up so it fails and they rush in for the rescue, and given it being an election year, there is much give and take. I'm so tired of politics getting in the way of doing what is right! Please quite listening to the naysayers that convience you things are bad so they can move a political agenda. My party over your party thing is the most damaging thing we american are doing to ourselves.

  10. #40
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Conservative by definition means resist change and don't take risk. Where progressive means just the opposite. The risk of progressives is that they can take too much risk, where the mistake of conservatives is not taking risk. See one can argue that these radical groups are not using good judgement and there is truth in that but the underlying issue probably needs address, so that is where the tendency to want to hold back by the conservatives helps mold these important issues into more reasonable approaches to the problems.

    See many of you have jumped onto the fact that republicans were responsible for some of the good things that were mentioned. I assure you there was resistance from conservatives but the pressure from progressives helped move the acts. And vice versa, the conservatives keeped democratic leaders from going too far.

    This is why a bipartisan or moderate approach is what is needed instead of this failure to work together.

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