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Thread: Chessie Pup Help!

  1. #31
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    It sounds like you are already making progress, realizing you have a different dog is the biggest step.

    Force fetch and the e collar are just tools. When used properly they make for better trained dogs and happier trainers. Many ascribe an age requirement for deciding when a dog is ready for FF. My wife and I have found that doing based on a dogs development/behavior works much better. When a dog starts to make decisions about whether or not in needs to obey a command is the right time to start FF. Force fetch is not about retrieving. It is the first step in teaching a dog that obeying a command, inspite of 'pressure', is the only option. I have done FF on dogs prior to them getting their adult teeth. I have found to it to be easier and usually faster with a younger dog.

    Since you want to train your own dog I would encourage you to find someone to help you do FF with your own dog. One very important benefit is seeing how your dog responds to the pressure/ear pinch. You are likely to see similar behavior later on in training.

    The easiest problem to fix is the oe you don't create/allow to develop.

    Have fun with your dog,

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  2. #32
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    Remember stubborn could be confused for not
    Understanding what you want. Chessies are not
    The fastest learners they really need to understand
    On the contrary, many Chesapeakes are extremely fast learners--at pressing the owners' buttons. I've had more than a few who acted just like the OP's pup at that same age. It's awesome to have one that "gets it" about returning from an early age; you can show it off and have it doing big dog marks before it's even force fetched or cc'd but, I would say it's not the norm. That pup sounds like she likes retrieving, and she also sounds like she's ready for formal obedience. The good ones all seem to have a little "bad" in them.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  3. #33

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    I understand. If it took days for my last dog to grasp a concept, it takes this pup a week or more, but once she gets it, she retains it better than than my last dog. However, she is also stubborn and pushy, albeit also surprisingly sensitive once corrected, which is a tough line for me to walk.

    Up to this point, I've honestly only trained really good meat dogs. With this pup, I am trying to spend more time on the fundamentals so I get a more polished product in the end. However, my previous dogs were so quick to chain together behaviors that I realized I am actually having to force myself to truly focus on each fundamental baby step separately for the first time. It is good for me. For example, I taught Here-Heel-Sit almost as a single concept to my last dog when she was 12-14 weeks old and she had it figured out incredibly quickly. With this pup, I have to teach each step separately, slowly and repeated ad naseum (what I've been doing for the last 3 months), then connect them (what I am doing now). Fortunately, the connecting the baby steps is going faster than training them.

    My reading suggests that my hesitation to use the check cord to reinforce "here" while retrieving fun bumpers is unfounded. Many feel that is just part of the process and never turn a pup completely loose until they have a E-collar on them. I guess I've simply never felt I needed it before now, so I subconsciously figured I never would.

    Nate

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    On the contrary, many Chesapeakes are extremely fast learners--at pressing the owners' buttons. I've had more than a few who acted just like the OP's pup at that same age. It's awesome to have one that "gets it" about returning from an early age; you can show it off and have it doing big dog marks before it's even force fetched or cc'd but, I would say it's not the norm. That pup sounds like she likes retrieving, and she also sounds like she's ready for formal obedience. The good ones all seem to have a little "bad" in them.
    Amen to your every point.

    Nate
    Last edited by WhiteDog70810; 03-08-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  5. #35
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    Nate - The purpose of that check cord is so you can enforce the here command and stop her running around and playing the keep away stuff with you when you give the here command. It's not to force her to retrieve, and I suspect she is most likely dropping the dummy as soon as you start reeling her in on that check cord which is fine. If she holds on to the bumper and brings it back too when you command here while reeling her in that is a bonus. Force Fetch training will take care of the fetch and hold part. Good luck with your pup, and have fun.
    Southland Dixe's Hunter Boy, JH (Hunter)
    Triple J's Hotta Habanera Mo Betta, (Mo)
    Freezeland's Carbon Squared, (CC)

  6. #36

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    I also want to thank you all. I got sick of the self-righteous bickering on the dog training section over on another popular forum that I used to frequent, so I have been staying away from all dog training forums as a result. I appreciate how gracious you all are being.

    Nate

  7. #37
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    Nate, the typical Chesapeake learning process is a bit different from the typical Lab. Chesapeakes are aware of and are critics of the learning process. While adding an exercise or command to their repertoire, they need to test to get answers to some questions. What does he expect? Do I really need to do this? Do I have to do it the same in this situation? Do I have to do it when the sun is shining? Do I have to do it when he's six feet away? *Is there any conflict with any of the other commands I've learned?* Once they've cycled through all of the tests, they commit the action to memory and that's that.

    I see "pushy" as being an active participant in the learning process. "What happens if I do this?" Chesapeakes want to have some initiative. This can be tricky when it comes to force procedures. Some times you gain a lot by backing off on the force and giving her an opportunity to just do it. If she goes along making progress and suddenly one day she digs in and refuses, she may be telling you, "I've got it. You don't need to force me any more."

    I think "stubborn" is a mischaracterization. Chesapeakes are more obsessive. They learn to do something one way and that's the way they will always do it. That's great when you've taught them to do it the way you want. If it's unwanted behavior, IMO it's best to respect that it isn't easy to change a habit. Set things up so they are influenced and rewarded for doing it the new way, and be patient.

    As you have noticed, it's typical for Chesapeakes to be sensitive to pressure. Being consistent and persistent will help you, as will making sure your pup really understands the desired behavior before applying pressure. Escalating pressure is likely to end badly.

    Earning a Chesapeake's respect is not just about being consistent, fair, and in charge. It's partly a matter of learning to respect the dog's initiative and point of view.

    It's great that you embrace what makes this dog different. Have fun.

    Amy Dahl

  8. #38
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Amy pretty much nailed it.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  9. #39
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    Thanks Sharon I forgot to say, praise will become very important, even though you feel it isn't now. For most Chesapeakes, having their effort acknowledged is BIG motivation.

    Amy Dahl

  10. #40
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    part 2 sounds reasonable, but teaching a dog all kinds of avoidance as a way of relating is way to unpredictable for my taste. it doesn't sound like you moved on to CC, or FF - did you? I think teaching a dog to handle "pressure" the way you did would be extremely counterproductive almost unfair later on. So yes, it definitely sounds risky, in regards to outcome, and it sounds like the dog you had to deal with wasn't one with any real high expectations put on it, so with the low set of standards applied at home, I'm sure the family was happy with the results. Would you do that to a dog of your own who you expected to perform in FT or high level HT? what about for a dog that might swim 2-2.5 miles in a day in 45-50 degree water, chasing cripples and bringing in 20-30 sea ducks?








    I think the post I was replying to is gone? something about dominance and ceasr milan..
    Last edited by jhnnythndr; 03-09-2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: post I replied to was deleted

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