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Thread: Keystone Pipe

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    ... This has been forced by the government environmentalist. It is killing the coal industry destroying many towns in Pennsylvania and West Virginia (to mention a few). We have the technology to stop emissions from coal fired power plants, but still the EPA forces them to covert and use CNG....
    Do have one shred of evidence for this nonsense?

    The switch to NG is primarily from MARKET forces. Now you don't like what the market is doing so you blame the government. Priceless.

  2. #12
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    !st - refineries should be located near their end users to lower costs of delivery to the end user -
    2nd - the best way to get initial product to a refinery would be through low cost shipping which
    means either pipeline or in very large tankers - large tankers mean coastal refineries
    3rd - for the above reasons a 400,000 BPD refinery by Elk Point SD makes no sense but one by
    Elverson PA certainly would!!!

    MDU is a partner in a group doing the necessary permitting to install a 40,000 BPD diesel refinery
    in Western ND to service the high volume of truck traffic through the area, using local product. Makes
    sense to me.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Do have one shred of evidence for this nonsense?

    The switch to NG is primarily from MARKET forces. Now you don't like what the market is doing so you blame the government. Priceless.
    Do your own research...the facts are available.....are you suggesting that the EPA isn't driving down the use of coal through more and more regulations?

  4. #14
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    I understand what the narrative that you have wholehearteadly bought into, but again, it is not true.


    Did EPA start this during the Bush administration?

    Maybe, just maybe, all those old plants that were grandfathered in after the 1963 Clean Air act have reached the end of their lifespan and power companies have done the math (aka ASSESSED THE MARKET) and figured out the natural gas is a better alternative.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt McKenzie View Post
    Seriously? A a refinery (how many times more expensive than a pipeline?) in South Dakota? Now instead of the problem of transporting crude oil you have the same problem transporting refined products. Why do you think those refineries on the gulf coast are located there?
    I understand and appreciate that there are differences of opinion about policy here, but who could possibly think it makes sense to put a refinery in South Dakota without a pipeline system to support it?
    I don't know what you're taking about. They are going to pipe crude right past here to the gulf coast. What the hell is wrong with refining it here and piping it to market?
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    !st - refineries should be located near their end users to lower costs of delivery to the end user -
    2nd - the best way to get initial product to a refinery would be through low cost shipping which
    means either pipeline or in very large tankers - large tankers mean coastal refineries
    3rd - for the above reasons a 400,000 BPD refinery by Elk Point SD makes no sense but one by
    Elverson PA certainly would!!!

    MDU is a partner in a group doing the necessary permitting to install a 40,000 BPD diesel refinery
    in Western ND to service the high volume of truck traffic through the area, using local product. Makes
    sense to me.
    Marv, here is a map of existing refined product pipelines. Why does it make more sense to pipe tar sand oil through SD and down to the gulf?

    One think I found interesting during the Elk Point debate was all the conservatives in this part of the country catching a serious case of NIMBY Syndrome.

    Last edited by Buzz; 03-09-2014 at 04:26 PM.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
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    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
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    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Franco....hard for me to say this, but I absolutely agree with your comments, but for us to go to CNG we have to stop converting our power plants from coal to CNG. This has been forced by the government environmentalist. It is killing the coal industry destroying many towns in Pennsylvania and West Virginia (to mention a few). We have the technology to stop emissions from coal fired power plants, but still the EPA forces them to covert and use CNG. By going back to coal and as a nation converting to automobiles that can use CNG or gasoline...the dependence on foreign energy would be stopped and at the same time dramatically reduce unemployment. The oil companies would still be viable, also. An energy boom would be created (more that we have now)....and we all could fill our cars up at home as most homes have CNG line in their homes that could be set up to fill 'er up, at home.....
    If you live in a mining town you have to accept the mines will close sometime when the deposit is exhausted, technology or regulatory environment changes. No one owes those towns an existence. When the reason for a town existing disappears, only the unadventuresome and the politicians will try to keep them alive, usually it entails great expenditure and the "horse" will likely not run again if they do save it.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    If you live in a mining town you have to accept the mines will close sometime when the deposit is exhausted, technology or regulatory environment changes. No one owes those towns an existence. When the reason for a town existing disappears, only the unadventuresome and the politicians will try to keep them alive, usually it entails great expenditure and the "horse" will likely not run again if they do save it.
    Sort of like Detroit?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Marv, here is a map of existing refined product pipelines. Why does it make more sense to pipe tar sand oil through SD and down to the gulf?

    One think I found interesting during the Elk Point debate was all the conservatives in this part of the country catching a serious case of NIMBY Syndrome.

    Buzz - I was only talking of transport & lowering cost - I am no expert on this but have a son who is an operator at the Long Beach refinery
    of the now Phillips 66 who could tell you by refinery what grades of crude particular refineries are capable of refining. The old Asarco smelter
    in Tacoma was the only smelter in the world capable of refining high sulfate ore. It's now a very lucrative superfund site. But I do have a map
    showing the pipelines in the US, mainly located in the South Center of the US from Houston North to Northern OK.

    What I find interesting about all this stuff is they love the jobs & revenue while a smelter or refinery is on site & working, they then fine the
    companies for polluting the atmosphere & use that to do the remediation of the ground, then they sell the property to developers as much
    of it is prime real estate with WF views & access. Should you ever get to the West Coast & visit Tacoma - in about 10 years you can see that
    occurring in the little village of Ruston. The company that bought ASARCO is paying that price at present & remediation is taking place. The
    companies that bought Anaconda & bunker Hill have created a lifeline for displaced miners.

    There are no Fiscal Conservatives in SD in either party - The state is populated by Social moderates, as it should be - they just elect people unlike
    themselves who promise more than they deliver -
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  10. #20
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    Maybe, just maybe, all those old plants that were grandfathered in after the 1963 Clean Air act have reached the end of their lifespan and power companies have done the math (aka ASSESSED THE MARKET) and figured out the natural gas is a better alternative.
    My electric bill here in PA says that about 38% of our electricity comes from coal. The EPA has essentially banned new construction of coal plants by setting a requirement for technology that has not been commerically used yet.

    Obama himself stated long ago that his policies would necessarily cause electric costs to soar. One promise he has kept.
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