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Thread: How would you score dogs hunt on this mark?

  1. #21
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    Its gd to see what hunting dog is supposed to
    Do

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    KM did you see the runner taking off around 10 seconds into video? I reran it several times thinking it was a rabbit. It was really hauling butt. Do you see a rabbit or pheasant?
    Yes, you are quite right Breck, the bird was running before the dog got there. I didn't re-watch the video before , as I was actually there at the time . So, my memory was a little different, and from a different angle.... The dog was sent fairly promptly but didn't mark the fall accurately, so rightly Phil stepped in and put the dog onto it where it was able to pick up the scent. An excellent piece of work. All dog once he got it onto the line.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tstreg's Avatar
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    Thanks Lonnie, I needed a good laugh this AM, Some take this way to seriously. Awesome NAHRA type trail. Slight ding on the score sheet for the handle if that's what it actually was. A couple repositions on a live rooster jabbing dog on the way in, no biggie.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    How would you score hunt on this mark?
    about 10 seceonds in you see pheasant hauling ass up the crop row before dog is sent.
    First of Breck, This wasn't a Mark !
    Phil was next dog on the line for a retrieve,but neither he or the dog knows where or when it will come.
    The retrieve was a 'Blind' for the dog!..Phil handled (stopped the dog at the fall area) Directed the dog on the path the 'runner' .The dog used it's god given talent (and the training) to get it's nose on the deck and hunt for a cocktail of shot scent/Game/and blood.There was also other 'unseen' live unshot game in that crop area,but that dog was on a mission. At one point that Rooster was also kicking spur! with plenty 'life' - fighting for life- and the dog re-positioned the bird without being 'Hard mouthed'! The dog never won the trial. In mighty fine company I guess. With a fantastic show of the difference between the UK Game finding prowess than the Precise marking skills of AKC Retrievers.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    First of Breck, This wasn't a Mark !
    Phil was next dog on the line for a retrieve,but neither he or the dog knows where or when it will come.
    The retrieve was a 'Blind' for the dog!..Phil handled (stopped the dog at the fall area) Directed the dog on the path the 'runner' .The dog used it's god given talent (and the training) to get it's nose on the deck and hunt for a cocktail of shot scent/Game/and blood.There was also other 'unseen' live unshot game in that crop area,but that dog was on a mission. At one point that Rooster was also kicking spur! with plenty 'life' - fighting for life- and the dog re-positioned the bird without being 'Hard mouthed'! The dog never won the trial. In mighty fine company I guess. With a fantastic show of the difference between the UK Game finding prowess than the Precise marking skills of AKC Retrievers.
    .
    Wasn't the dog on the line when bird was shot? I thought that was a given?
    Right, quite different games either side of big pond. At AKC field trials when we run blinds the dog is to follow our direction and not their nose. If they deviate from cast given because they got a nose full of something and dont respond next cast to continue on, they're done. On Marks it's all dogs responsibility from initial cast till deliver to hand. Normally if handler must intervene in any way otherwise, dog is done.
    Pretty sure for you guys things are basically opposite where dog is responsible for blinds and handler the marks. (basically of course).
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  6. #26
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    .
    Wasn't the dog on the line when bird was shot? I thought that was a given?

    Pretty sure for you guys things are basically opposite where dog is responsible for blinds and handler the marks. (basically of course).
    Unless I'm not understanding what is said,or interpretation ?..Our Line (as seen on the clip) Is a bit 'longer' and more parties at that line than AKC Field trials.The film (zoom) shows the dog being cast from that line that may appear that the disatnce is short , but as KM already stated she was actually there,but never seen the same angle /or action?.that also dictates the distance/view is different. Confusion?) .The dog is responsible for the marks! - It either see's them or it doesn't.The Handler is responsible for the blinds!because the dog doesn't see them!?.The responsibility in this clip (imo) expertly done was the handler directing the dog to the fall area of the intended target,and from then on, 'No handling'!..It's all dog (and training).
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    In the video my assumption was a bird was shot and the dogs in line would have seen it being pricked. Dog in video was sent on but required a toot and cast to put on trail. right? if so good job.
    Without being too cryptic in response, in your trials, are dogs not expected to be independant on blinds and is it not common they will be stopped and handled on marks?
    All I was trying to say is that at our trials either spells death by elimination! so we sort of play opposite so to speak, no?
    Our trials are designed so every dog, by rule, is given the opportunity to see each mark shot and it's fall. (unless he's being naughty and not looking). All of our blinds are placed such that both judges and handlers know exactly where they are placed on the ground. (although some of us older folks may not be able to see quite so far and think blind is where it' not. lol)
    "Darla" AFC Candlewoods Lil Smokin Tequila (2002-2013)(fondly remembered)
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  8. #28
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Let's 'Break this down'?..So there is clarity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Breck View Post
    In the video my assumption was a bird was shot and the dogs in line would have seen it being pricked.
    The clip in question and like many walk up field trials the 'Line' may extend over several yards and in some cases such as the Championships over 100d's of yards and the topography of the ground although may appear flat with cover crop as such shown in the clip with the height of the dog many don't see the bird or the fall of that bird.
    Dog in video was sent on but required a toot and cast to put on trail. right? if so good job.
    Spot on ,in this case!
    Without being too cryptic in response, in your trials, are dogs not expected to be independant on blinds
    If a dog is Independent on blinds then it is hunting not retrieving or being directed to the retrieve.
    and is it not common they will be stopped and handled on marks?
    It may be common with handlers that you have heard or seen in 'Test's (using dummy's/bumpers) in competition?.Due to the lack of marking/and or lack of training at the level they are competing in the quest to 'get the retrieve' in competition!?..These dogs and handlers would not be winners!
    . In a Field trial when there is Live game however, the Primary function is to retrieve that shot game! So although the dog may or may not have 'marked' the game ,if the the game is shot that nominated dog and handler must retrieve that game.
    All I was trying to say is that at our trials either spells death by elimination! so we sort of play opposite so to speak, no?
    All the dogs and handlers in your trials have the same course with the same ground and the same game Yes!
    Our trials are designed so every dog, by rule, is given the opportunity to see each mark shot and it's fall.
    Then that would require the skills of Marking ability Only! and that is your game
    All of our blinds are placed such that both judges and handlers know exactly where they are placed on the ground.
    Here lies the essence of difference between our games!?..In our Field trials we are competing with Live game and unknown circumstances for every retrieve! for every dog and every handler.
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  9. #29
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the clip…thanks for sharing…it was very pleasing seeing that dog’s tail in action. I would of clap too and later that night shared a little bit of that cook pheasant with the dog. IMO...dog did his job and that is conservation at its best.

    Edit to Post: I thought some more on this and I think or believe that sometimes we get so involved in the rules and such that we forget the intent or the purpose....Just saying.
    Last edited by BJGatley; 03-15-2014 at 11:09 PM. Reason: Add content.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Colonel Blimp's Avatar
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    Breck,

    This snap might help you visualise things better; it's a Novice Trial held on an estate close to Blimp Towers.



    What you can see is roughly half the line of Guns / Handlers on a drive, it continues towards the right of my position with the camera, and I guess the total length was around two hundred yards. My function on the day above, as an experienced picker-up, was to carefully mark any birds I considered pricked and accurately describe their positions to the Judges if asked. The chap in the centre with a red line under him is one of the two Judges present, the second Judge is about twenty yards behind me. Note all dogs are in the line, under judgement with no leads on.

    You can see three Guns, one with a blue line under him, and two others; again there are another three or four to my right. I'm on the highest ground in the field which obviously folds a bit, and in fact drops down quite sharply behind me, so he yellow dog for instance would not be able to fully mark a bird falling there; he'd probably see it on the way down, but not exactly the point of impact. If the line was in a root field his problems would be compounded.

    Bear in mind that the drive is conducted as on a normal shooting day, so that any of the Guns at any point can and will take multiple shots producing birds either dead or winged. In the video you posted, there were a couple of shots fired as the dog was out on his hunt, so the other dogs / handlers would have to mark and remember any resulting birds. On the day above, from memory, one cripple did land in the far hedge and give problems, constantly doubling back and dodging through the fence line.

    On a walk-up much the same sort of stuff applies, but you have the added joy of falling flat on your clock because you are watching things other than your footing.

    Eug
    Last edited by Colonel Blimp; 03-16-2014 at 12:30 PM.
    Thank you, very kind, Mine's a pint.

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