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Thread: Is EE fair to handlers?

  1. #11
    Senior Member lbbuckler's Avatar
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    In absence of the operative word "good", enter dog in 1 stake with a slightly different handler name than stake 2. Takes a bit more time but if its an issue the randomizer can be manipulated.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim West View Post
    I have noticed in recent trials contestants getting the same numbers (or close to the same) in both AA stakes. In this weekends Rockwall Trial, Lauren Hays is going to be third in the Open with dog number 21 and second in the Amateur with dog number 20, The Dow number is 19, I know because I follow her in the Am on Saturday.

    There used to be a feature where the Club Secretary could redo the draw to keep this stuff from happening. Is this still the case? If not, there's a serious flaw in the system and it seems to me the program could be re written to keep this from happening. I can see where a handler that has multiple dogs might get first or second with his dogs in both stakes, but Lauren only has Slider. If there is a dog that might overcome this, it certainly is Slider but when pheasants are thrown in tests, being in the first five dogs is a very difficult task to overcome.
    Well Tim, if you check Slider's record I don't think Lauren needs your help. Are you equally concerned about my #2 dog Tubby who has had the same issue on several occasions. We should all be thankful for a random draw and a random starting number, you are too field trial young to remember when things were different. The draw has a way of equalizing itself over the career of a dog, if I were Lauren I would like my chances under the current system much better than those of Judy and NAFC Cody under the old system.

  3. #13

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    Many of us out west have noticed the same thing. Plus, if you start paying close attention, you will probably notice that the same people run in the order near you. It's also interesting to note how often, if you run more than one dog in the AA, entered in both stakes, that the same dog runs first.
    I was told by someone with a background in mathematics, that when a program is written for this kind of thing, it is never really random and that there are groupings within the program. I'm sure it's an old program and that, nowadays, is probably considered archaic.

  4. #14
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    I think unfair might be to strong, unlucky some weekend yes. Last trial i ran Chili was last in each stake, thank goodness for that last tick of the dow.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Tim West's Avatar
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    Ed, it's not about whether I think Lauren needs the help or if I fear her more than Tubby. Slider, Tubby and who ever else had the same numbers in both stakes will get a less than even chance to do well in one of those stakes. The fact that pheasants will be used in the first series of these stakes makes it even more so. I guess next time I enter I will be Jere (my real first name) in the Open and Tim in the Am. It's a flawed system that needs to be fixed, especially since it's the ONLY system available and we pay a very good amount of money to use it.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Would some one explain the process to me. Thanks in advance.
    In hrc and akc ht order doesn't seem to be so important.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 03-20-2014 at 05:34 AM.
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  7. #17
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    First ten dogs are usually a sacrifice
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  8. #18
    Senior Member lbbuckler's Avatar
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    Not necessarily Mike, sometimes its an advantage, lighting, wind, rain conditions can be more advantageous to the early dogs. The main disadvantage is you have to get up really early. LOL
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    The running order should not be announced until the start time so all the sandbaggers have no where else to be and the field trial committee would have a captive audience to assign jobs from.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscowitz View Post
    First ten dogs are usually a sacrifice
    I think that is a bit overstated, the disadvantage of running early on land marks usually is a result of less than optimum scenting, light conditions, and relative lack of wind but it is not always a disadvantage. I would prefer to not run in the first 10 but have had my share of success doing so.

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