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Thread: Puppy training video

  1. #1
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Default Puppy training video

    Positive puppy people, I see three mistakes in this video... One is that I used left over steak and pup is so anxious he's having trouble sitting still... Second my marker/reward timing is off. Third, I change the sound of my good marker toward the end. What else do you see?

    BTW this is Angus - 10 weeks old, bred by our own Sharon Potter of Red Branch Kennnels

    Darrin Greene

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    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    I sent my comments via PM.

    I am curious to know your take on my observations, without the "peer pressure" of the rest of the gallery chiming in.

    Like I said in the PM, you must feel some "thick skin" today!
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

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    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Very cute Puppy! Obviously a smart, focused little guy - which is an achievement in itself.

    For "duration sit", I find it helps to use a small, rectangular platform to prevent scooting and to really define the task for pup.

    Clickers are my favorite marker due to the difficulty of keeping the word "Good" crisp and uniform. But I have seen some marker trainers develop a click with their tongue.

    Good luck with your pup, Darrin!

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    Senior Member T-Pines's Avatar
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    Excellent focus from your pup! I'm not sure why you are creating so much movement between reps for the pup's ability at this stage. I assume the movement is to "re-set" the exercise between reps. If so, I would still have a preference for establishing a better understanding of no movement during treat delivery for several reps before I "re-set" the exercise with movement between reps.

    Are you following Ellis' method of two conditioned reinforcement markers? One that is also a release (Ellis uses "Yes") and one that means keep doing what you were commanded to do (Ellis uses "Gooooood")? If so, which have you conditioned for your "Good"? You are allowing and rewarding a release.

    Lastly, it looks like at 15-18 seconds you have your best rep where it looks like you had moved a small distance (maybe half step) away from the pup and the pup remained solid. Even though the distance is quite small, I would have returned closer to the pup before treat delivery. I realize that you can bend and reach the pup for delivery at this distance without stepping back closer, but I feel that by making a small step back before delivery, you are more clearly communicating that you are moving to the pup for delivery rather than the pup developing the bad habit of moving to you to receive the treat.

    Again, it looks very good for such a young pup ... these are very fine points ... you asked ... this is what I saw.

    Jim

  6. #6

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    With "Operant Conditioning" animal forms a relationship between a behavior and a consequence. The consequence must occur immediately after the desired behavior (within second). Marker Training uses a bridge or marker to extend the time before the reward is given. With that said... A quick note on timing. The "marker" - in your case the "Good" command for the desired behavior should be immediately after the dog's butt hits the ground and then the reward should be issued with a slight delay. By giving the reward when you issue the marker you are creating unnecessary movement in the dog. Here is an article I wrote on the subject of training with treats.

    Training Your Dog with Treats — Good or Bad?

  7. #7
    Senior Member mtncntrykid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    I sent my comments via PM.

    I am curious to know your take on my observations, without the "peer pressure" of the rest of the gallery chiming in.

    Like I said in the PM, you must feel some "thick skin" today!

    As a newbie with a new puppy coming Saturday, I would be interested in the take of one professional trainer view to another professional trainers methods.

    Should you both have a mind to help us newbie's.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing mistakes, so to speak....a little timing here and there and an unnecessary repetition of the sit command once, but mostly just a different way of doing things from what I do.

    I tend to not provide any verbal commands/cues until I've gotten a conditioned response to the human's body language, which in this video he is responding to very well because you are mostly consistent with it. Overlaying the verbal is quick and easy once the response to body cues is there. The treat (steak?!? lucky puppy!) is its own reward, and your body language is the marker, with the verbal being extraneous at this point in time. The verbal in the initial stages makes us feel like we've done something, when it really just adds one more thing for the pup to think about (and makes us feel better since we're using human communication, keeping us in familiar territory. )

    But then again, I'm kinda out in left field in the way I do stuff, so take it with a grain of salt.

    Looking forward to continuing to watch his progress!
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  9. #9
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    So.. reading the comments this needs a little bit of context.

    We've spent three days working on focus, eye contact, learning that "good" and "OK" mark treats.

    Angus has been offering the sit behavior very readily the last day or so, with or without my body language cuing him to do it. This is what I want. I want a dog that approaches for my attention, engaging with me in a front sit posture (as opposed to jumping or any other annoying thing he might do to get my attention).

    Here, I'm just anticipating his sit and labeling the behavior, which it looks like he's picked up very well, except that there's not been nearly enough repetitions for that to be possible. He looks like he's responding to my command when in fact, he was going to sit anyway. I'm just putting a label on it.

    As was mentioned, my timing is off, which is why I film myself doing this stuff and why I offered it up for comments.

    Thanks to all that commented so far. Looking forward to hearing more.
    Darrin Greene

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    (big evil grin here) Actually, I'm thinking that Angus is, in his little Chessie brain, thinking "Hey, if I stop and sit in front of the vending machine, it spits out food!"
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

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