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Thread: Field Trial Judging

  1. #71
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    The loudest grumblers are the ones that have never judged.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    John - Thanks for your honest answer - Beware those who agree with your position. In most cases they have never owned
    a dog good enough to get the shaft, nor will they ever, so do not understand the emotion that goes into biting your tongue
    & saying nothing when that happens. There are dog venues available if one does not strive for excellence in performance &
    that's where they should be playing.

    If Susie or Johnnie are unaware of what is going on & are still holding the book please explain to me the difference between
    that condition & the highlighted statements in your post? The end result will still be the same.

    For the little guy who makes this sport possible by their unrewarded labors to not receive an award that would qualify their dog
    to run a national because of their perceived status is really sad. For many that will not happen often. It is especially sad when the
    mechanism could easily be put in place to ensure that does not happen, but the ruling class will not go there.

    As I have on the back of the card that announced my website "Every well trained Field Trial Retriever deserves
    COMPETENT & IMPARTIAL judging capable of recognizing that Retriever's unique talents in competition".


    What you are saying is, You don't agree with that statement!!! It is about the dogs, not the people judging them.

    Marvin, I went to your website last night but could not find your ratings for any judges. I clicked on every sidebar. Would you please send me a pdf of your ratings? Thanks in advance!-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Over the past five or so years, there has been a significant increase in the number of field trials that are held. Look at the Texas winter circuit, where there are more conflicting trials than ever. This means that there is an increasing demand for people to judge those trials. We have more older participants retiring from judging, and fewer new participants entering the sport, who are available to judge. That means that there is a shortage in supply.

    Everyone has a formula for the ideal judge. I don't think that they necesssarily apply.

    I have run under judges who train their own dogs. Some were good, some were not.
    I have run under judges who don't train their own dogs. Some were good, some were not.
    I have run under judges who are very successful competitors. Some were good, some were not.
    I have run under judges who were not very successful competitors. Some were good, some were not.
    I have run under judges who are currently active in the sport. Some were good, some were not.
    I have run under judges who have been out of the sport for several years. Some were good, some were not.

    There are some judges who are technically great, but hard on the help and club.
    There are some judges who are easy to work with, but challenged in setting up tests.

    In short, I don't think generalizations really apply.

    Field trials are a reflection of our society in general.
    - There are people who are dedicated and competent. There are people who are not.
    - There are people who know what they are doing. There are people who do not.
    - There are people who are influenced by reputation. There are people who are not.

    By and large, I believe that people try to do their best.

    Are there crooked judges? Of course, just like there are crooks throughout our society. But, I do not believe it is a pervasive issue - anymore than I believe that our society in general is over run by crooks.

    Many times, placements that seem initially confusing are understood when you understand what the judge likes - or dislikes.
    - Some judges care only about marks. Blinds are simply survival
    - Some judges are very precise about their blinds. Failure to hit a keyhole is death
    - Some judges care about line manners.
    Once you understand their taste, placements and callbacks make more sense.

    My analogy is to referees in football or umpires in baseball.
    Some referees allow a lot of downfield contact. Other call pass interference.
    Some umpires call the high strike. Others call the low one.
    It is a different interpretation. Once you understand how the game is called, you adapt your behavior.

    Is there a conspiracy to keep qualified judges from field trials? I don't think so.

    I think field trial clubs across the country do the best they can. Remember, this is a volunteer sport.

    If a person is unhappy with the quality of judging, I suggest that they get active in their local club and become involved in obtaining judges. Then you can discover what the practical realities are of finding qualified judges are.

    Overall, I think clubs and judges are doing the best they can, with very little thanks from us.

    They deserve more appreciation from all of us.

    Ted
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  4. #74
    Senior Member 8mmag's Avatar
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    OK I just counted. I have run a mere 27 trials in my lifetime, and I thought the judging in 26 of them was fair, honest, and competent. We would all like to be 100% satisfied all the time, but I don't think you're gonna get much better than 96+% although it is a worthy goal worth striving for. I guess for me the glass is still half full.

    I'm gonna get blasted by all the six sigma gurus out there for saying that I know...
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    [FC/AFC Big Alfonse Capone of Mo-Kan x Dominators Magic Avalon]

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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Marvin, I went to your website last night but could not find your ratings for any judges. I clicked on every sidebar. Would you please send me a pdf of your ratings? Thanks in advance!-Paul
    Paul - the website does not rate judges - it's only purpose was to show there is an ample supply
    of judges to choose from if the amateurs who place in stakes are asked to judge same, which does
    not happen.


    When you need a lawyer you do not hire someone untrained in law
    When you need an engineer you do not hire someone who is untrained in engineering
    When you need a house built you are smart to hire an architect to design same
    When your car doesn't run do you fix it yourself or hire a mechanic?

    Not all of these people will do the best job, as an engineer I know there is vast difference
    in quality but most can get the job done, some much better than others. Like toast they
    pop up.

    I know the amount of effort, preparation & skill that goes into creating a FT competitive dog
    as I am one of those who did most of the work myself, with a lot of mentoring from quality
    pro's & amateurs. To allow some who are as vastly untrained as some judges are sit in
    judgement of that effort makes little sense.

    Ted is a lawyer, his skill is making people put their own numbers on generalizations such as
    his previous post. Nothing is absolute in FT's, so one cannot disagree with his generalizations.
    As some one who places great emphasis on fact & the numerical results of those facts, I would
    like him to quantify each of the generalizations he had time to place in play.
    __________________________

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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  6. #76
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8mmag View Post
    OK I just counted. I have run a mere 27 trials in my lifetime, and I thought the judging in 26 of them was fair, honest, and competent. We would all like to be 100% satisfied all the time, but I don't think you're gonna get much better than 96+% although it is a worthy goal worth striving for. I guess for me the glass is still half full.

    I'm gonna get blasted by all the six sigma gurus out there for saying that I know...
    I have no idea how many field trials I have run but I can honestly say that your experience is within my normal range. The only judges I avoid are the dishonest ones who are few and far between. If a judge is honest and gives his or her best effort I might grumble privately but I always appreciate the commitment of time and effort for a generally thankless job.

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    A MEN!!

    Connor

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    I have no idea how many field trials I have run but I can honestly say that your experience is within my normal range. The only judges I avoid are the dishonest ones who are few and far between. If a judge is honest and gives his or her best effort I might grumble privately but I always appreciate the commitment of time and effort for a generally thankless job.
    Ed - I would think you bright enough to recognize that while you are not a member of the ruling class,
    you are still FT royalty & as such will receive different treatment than those who sit in the rows in back.
    __________________________

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    Someday your life will flash before your eyes. It's your responsibility to make sure it's worth watching!

  9. #79
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    1. I must be since I haven't run a dog in the all age since 2003. I have however been in the game for a long time and have run multiple Nationals and have had two titled dogs. I have judged continuously except for about two years during my sons final years in High School. Do you think folks such as myself are unqualified? If so, be sure not to run if I ever judge in your neck of the woods.

    2. In my humble opinion, I feel that all age judges should have at least run an all age dog. Even better if they trained it themselves. 3. Your last sentence is just dumb.
    1. No I do not think you are unqualified. You have stayed in the game. So I don't understand why you are taking offense to this. So, if I run under you in "my neck of the woods" you wouldn't give my dog a fair shake because we have different opinions on judging? Good to know.

    2. I feel the same way. I won't judge an open until I have at least finished one.

    3. I was being sarcastic.

  10. #80
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboudet View Post
    1. No I do not think you are unqualified. You have stayed in the game. So I don't understand why you are taking offense to this. So, if I run under you in "my neck of the woods" you wouldn't give my dog a fair shake because we have different opinions on judging? Good to know.

    2. I feel the same way. I won't judge an open until I have at least finished one.

    3. I was being sarcastic.
    This is a prime example of how black and white print can be misinterpreted. I give every dog (and handler) the same fair shake. At least I try to.

    We probably agree more than disagree.
    Bill Davis

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