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Thread: Remote controlled gun fire?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    She knows the whole routine, from racing you to the holding blind to beating you to the mat, to creeping when the birds go down.

    She knows that when you're standing next to her, the next thing that happens after a gun shot is that she gets released to retrieve.

    She also knows that when you're standing out in the field and she sees a fall/hears a shot, she won't be released until you walk back to wherever she is an release her.

    She's doing the same task (heel to the line, sit, watch birds and then retrieve them), but in two different contexts. First context you standing next to her. Second context you away from her.

    So what would happen if, for some period of time, every time a bird was shot, you had her do one or two other behaviors before she was sent? What would happen if you made the point at which she gets released random? What would happen if for a month she didn't make a retrieve and did nothing but obedience behaviors every time a bird was shot?

    What would her expectation of what happens next be after that period of time and what effect might it have on what she does while the birds are going down?

    My best guess would be, and this is only a guess, that by resetting her expectation as to what will happen next in the context of you standing next to her, she will do something different when the birds are tossed.

    She's just back chaining the bird/shot as part of the release sequence. Change the sequence and make it impossible for her to anticipate the send because she has no idea what's coming next.

    Just thinking out loud on how to solve it without corrections.
    Yep, good ideas. It definitely works to do something unexpected in the sequence. Now that I have read your post, I see we have actually been doing this sort of, without realizing it and it works. Just by switching up every time: several singles, a double, triples, delayed triple, or run a single, two blinds then the other two singles, etc. Her creeping has all but disappeared. Good idea Darrin. This past week, I've even been heeling her facing the opposite direction of the set up, because I saw you do it in one of your videos. When I saw that, I said "That would be very hard to do with my girl". Now that we've done it a few times, it's not hard...

    But I would really like to be able to fire a gun shot with a mark whenever I can to desensitize her to that. Get crackin' Brett!

  2. #32
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    In all honesty Jen, she'd be getting 1 out of every 10 marks right now and there would be a different behavior after every fall...

    I might reward those behaviors with a bumper toss off to the side or, in your case, some food, but I would have her actually retrieving only a very small percentage of what she saw thrown. I might also stake her out and have her watch the other dogs work while being denied all the retrieving.

    Make a nice happy game out of it but randomize the sequences and the rewards.

    I THINK that would go a long way to solving the issue.

    The clue is... she'll wait for you to walk back to her from the field without creeping. When the sequence is different, steady dog. You just have to adapt those tactics to what happens when you're together at the line.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 03-27-2014 at 06:24 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #33
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    What is her "Sit" like on her blinds?
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    What is her "Sit" like on her blinds?
    Frankly, she is on the verge of breaking. She is a spit fire. I don't allow her to break and make sure she is sitting at heel before sending.

    During adjustments, if I am calm and doing it right, she will just move her front feet to adjust her aim. If I'm amped up and being a bad trainer (Picture Mitty's tap dancing daffy duck video) , she picks up her rear to do a whole body adjust.

    She is my first real trial bred dog. And since I am not a compulsion based trainer, I have allowed her a lot of lee way in the interest of building momentum. I believe we have achieved a good level of momentum and reliability now, so am starting to really require and refine the line manners. She is doing very well learning to be more precise and in control. But it is a process. And a fun project. She is a special dog who learns very quickly and is great at adapting new details.

    My new 4 mos old pup, however, is a hard headed male and will require more steadiness and control from the get-go!
    Last edited by Jennifer Henion; 03-27-2014 at 09:36 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Purpledawg's Avatar
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    I knew a guy who played you tube mp3's out his car stereo. great sound effects

  6. #36
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    In all honesty Jen, she'd be getting 1 out of every 10 marks right now and there would be a different behavior after every fall...

    I might reward those behaviors with a bumper toss off to the side or, in your case, some food, but I would have her actually retrieving only a very small percentage of what she saw thrown. I might also stake her out and have her watch the other dogs work while being denied all the retrieving.

    Make a nice happy game out of it but randomize the sequences and the rewards.

    I THINK that would go a long way to solving the issue.

    The clue is... she'll wait for you to walk back to her from the field without creeping. When the sequence is different, steady dog. You just have to adapt those tactics to what happens when you're together at the line.
    I hear what you are saying, now. Good thought. Some no-birds are in order!

  7. #37
    Member Sarge's Avatar
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    I train alone and use four Winger Mates. They are an indispensable tool for creating flyer like realism. I use Dogtra remote release electronics which allows the firing of the winger mate at any time from the right button and use the left button for the winger release.

    However, two caveats for the buyer of this product. There is no customer support. So if you need to replace a servo (four times) or the wiring you must be prepared to figure the fix for yourself. Also, DO NOT use the most recent Fiocchi Blanks sold on Gun Dog Supply. They are two hot (heavily loaded) and bent the aluminum of the Winger Mate. The Kent Field Trial blanks are very good with very few losses

  8. #38
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    Trainrite will not build anything that will fire a 12 gage blank as it could fire a live 12 gage load. Way to much liability for injury and a law suit. One suggestion that a friend of ours tried and that was recording shots on a tape recorder and play them through a speaker then launch the bird. I do not know how it worked out but I do know that the popper shell set up he used caused a grass fire! The set up he used was lever that was slapped forward and punched the primer on the blank when the launch occurred. We do not recommend that you do this but it can be done.
    Warren Price
    w. price

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    put together right, a 1975ish cadillac, a garage door opener and an M60 should be all you need.

    Heisenberg regards
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    put together right, a 1975ish cadillac, a garage door opener and an M60 should be all you need.

    Heisenberg regards
    Off topic, I know... but that was a GREAT episode....
    Mike Tome
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