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Thread: The Hobby Lobby Case

  1. #11
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    The problem as I understand it is that the ACA requires coverage of emergency contraception. Hobby Lobby considers it an abortion and thus against their faith. I don't know that a rider is an option.

    I would say that it ought to go on the list of things to fix with the ACA, but it is unlikely that either side will revisit the issue ever.

    In the case for euthanasia, the levels of pain and the hopelessness of recovery is so dire that perhaps letting go of hope is an acceptable option. I can't imagine the pain of losing one of my children and the only thing that might make that worse is watching them slowly and painfully dying before my eyes while I or anyone else was powerless to do anything about it. I don't know what I would do. I am happy that so far god has kept me from such a situation.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Buzzy,
    Be serious, insurance companies provided by companies, never provide cash! Not providing birth control pills and morning after pills as part of health insurance does not prohibit women from getting birth control or the morning after pill. The birth control pills are readily available at no cost at many 'free clinics' if one cannot afford to pay.

    This is strictly about Government forcing an institution to provide a product/service that is against their religious beliefs of the owners.

    Would be like forcing Obama and his family to eat 'pig'! If you know what I mean...
    are you really that stupid? Get over the Muslim thing, ain't true. Freedom of religion in our country is a right, is it not? If he were a muslim, that's his right to practice what ever religion he chooses. You are really reaching man.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Henlee, except for the RC church, I'm not sure that other Christian denominations object to abortions to save the life of the mother. If a mere human has to make a choice of which life to save, I cannot imagine a more difficult decision. Nor can I imagine we mere humans being infallible in such decisions.

    The slope gets slippery when one starts injecting the "psychological health" of the mother. I'm glad to have someone else (along with myself) admit that there are not easy answers for every, single situation.

    I don't think Hobby Lobby is preventing their employees from following their own beliefs. The employee is able to avail themselves of the abortifacient drugs (remember how high some of the deductibles are even on the govt exchanges), Hobby Lobby just doesn't want to participate by paying for it. The ideal situation would be that employees who want elective abortion coverage, those employees could pay for a separate "rider" at their own expense. Hobby Lobby doesn't discriminate against their employees for their beliefs, they simply do not want to embrace those beliefs that may conflict with their own beliefs.

    We can take this a step further. We see European countries now making it legal to actually euthanize children under age 12 if they have certain disabilities or diseases. Any of us who has known the pain of euthanizing one of our dogs, can we imagine euthanizing one of our children? There could be many people who would object to such practice. Would we willing to participate in that by including it in our health care insurance plans? In the case of "living wills" and euthanasia of an adult, the adult is making (we hope) an informed decision. When a child under 12 is asked to make such a decision, do they truly understand the gravity of such a decision? If the child is not capable of making the decision, the parents will make it in their stead. Since we already see this happening in Europe, can it be long before we face this same situation here?

    In the end, we also are faced with not just how we "feel" ... feelings do not always coincide with rational thought ... but a Constitution that provides protection for each human life. Perhaps the Founders were wiser than we give them credit for. In their era, they may not have had the technology to choose mother over child, but they gave us a means to attempt to evaluate such a choice with great care.

    This country was founded by those seeking religious freedom. Whatever these justices set as precedent can have far-reaching results which we don't even anticipate right now. We can only pray, or hope, that they have the wisdom to make a good decision.

    I may be nuts, but Sotomayor may be a "wild card" that no one suspects will break with ideology, but a self-described "wise Latina" could possibly do so.
    Your thoughts are a lot like mine. I can't see the taking of a life even if it is only minutes after the sperm enters the egg but I would never want to limit anyone elses choices. God given right as far as I'm concerned. Each case is a little different. Government should not be able to control that nor birth control etc. I have seen some people that I would have loved to pay for permanant birth control for them if they wanted it. Or maybe not !
    charly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    .................................................. .............

    In the case for euthanasia, the levels of pain and the hopelessness of recovery is so dire that perhaps letting go of hope is an acceptable option. I can't imagine the pain of losing one of my children and the only thing that might make that worse is watching them slowly and painfully dying before my eyes while I or anyone else was powerless to do anything about it. I don't know what I would do. I am happy that so far god has kept me from such a situation.
    Amen ! .................................................. ..........................................
    charly

    There ought to be one day -- just one -- when there is open season on Congressmen.
    ~Will Rogers~

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Does our constitution give the Pope any authority in the matter?

    Dude!
    When I typed that he and the Pope was about to chat.
    what did they talk about, the new Noah movie?
    i try to slip actual events of the day into my potus posts
    woulda loved to have been a fly on that wall.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  6. #16
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    After managing a large work force I swore I would never start a business the required a lot of people.
    When we started our business it was just that - As my cousin who is about ready to retire says"At this
    point as a business person I am tired of regulators with no skin in the game telling me how to run my
    business, I am tired of employees who don't have a clue where their paycheck originates nor why &
    though I really appreciate my customers there are always one or two that can change a day from
    pleasant to something not so".

    Unfortunately, there are more of the takers than there are the business people & politico's will pander
    to the very low hanging fruit. Chick-a-fila seems to get tremendous support from their customers, in
    fact it was free publicity & created more customers. I am looking forward to their establishment of a
    store in our area so I can experience lunch the Chick-a-fila way .
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  7. #17
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    wonder if The Pope said anything about it?
    Don't know...but Obama said "Forgive me Father, for I have Spied"



    Tweet from Rand Paul.
    Bill Davis

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Henlee

    .................................................. .............

    In the case for euthanasia, the levels of pain and the hopelessness of recovery is so dire that perhaps letting go of hope is an acceptable option. I can't imagine the pain of losing one of my children and the only thing that might make that worse is watching them slowly and painfully dying before my eyes while I or anyone else was powerless to do anything about it. I don't know what I would do. I am happy that so far god has kept me from such a situation.
    Agree!

    But I also think of the thalidomide babies that had horrible physical defects, and yet were otherwise healthy, and grew into beautiful human beings dealing with their disabilities in heroic ways to lead rich lives. I also think of the abortions of healthy babies and the women who have died from the Gosnell-type abortion clinics. I am not wise enough to make decisions like these.

    The TX abortion law was just upheld. While I don't know all of the details of that law, just basically that it was going to preclude 3rd trimester elective abortions and require that abortion clinic doctors have admittance privileges to a hospital for emergency situations. I can't imagine how making those abortions that have complications safer for the women, is not a protection for them. It was NOT going to preclude abortions that threatened the life of the woman. I don't think it precluded abortions in cases of rape or incest either (but I'm not 100% sure of these last two.)
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  9. #19
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    Dude!
    When I typed that he and the Pope was about to chat.
    what did they talk about, the new Noah movie?
    i try to slip actual events of the day into my potus posts
    woulda loved to have been a fly on that wall.
    Evidently there are differing opinions on what the content of the conversation was.

    The Vaticans version and Obamas version!

  10. #20
    Senior Member pat addis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    It seems to me that a company provides health insurance as part of their compensation package. When an employee receives cash payment in return for their services, the company has no control over how the employee spends that money, and they will have no control unless they are able to invent some kind of script to pay in that is generally accepted at every business in the country, but cannot be used to purchase items that the company disapproves of.

    In my mind, that is what Hobby Lobby wants to accomplish with the benefit of health insurance that they provide to their employees in lieu of cash wages. They want to impose their beliefs onto their employees.
    if the case you are making is the people get health care benefits is the same as wages and as such can use them any way they wish. so they should be able to buy pot and not have to submit to a random drug screen. if I was hobby lobby I would cut everyone to 20 hours and cut wages to pay for the mandate.

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