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Thread: Hope - Two Level Wagon Wheel Drill (video)

  1. #21
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Them 'Pro's'that you speak of with the heel of a boot?...Does the dog require a route to be told where to go with that foot?
    That heel of the boot was for a couple FC/AFC's that weren't overly concerned with being a team player's that day..

  2. #22
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    I will not post a video here. Too many people can look at it and assume it is the way it SHOULD be done. I did not say you were negligent Darrine.
    I haven't yet posted a video as a how to, but rather for people's entertainment and I'll even accept the critiques. It's hard to choke down being told when to apply pressure to something though, when people have no idea what a dog knows and at what stage of training she is.

    Hope KNOWS what to do in this drill even though it's the first time she ever saw all 8 bumpers or the two level part. She pushes/pulls with me every single day in demos and is very good at it. Add distraction or more drive (bumpers 5 paces away) and she gets very loose so... the purpose of my training in this particular case is not to teach the drill, but rather to promote and habituate a higher standard. That's why you see the collar being used and that's why, when she checked out I stepped it up and she got a little squirrely for a minute. You'd have to agree that once she got her head back in the game she settled right back down. Maybe I got a bit of a point across. Maybe not, but when you check out of a drill and just run off... don't expect a pat on the head.

    I filmed her today with no collar on at all and then with the collar in the same spot.

    I'll show you what I mean when you compare those videos.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #23
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    On looking at Lardy's notes on WW the article says "keep a short lead on the dog and use it and the heeling stick to guide the dog if necessary" "If he gets the bumper anyway stop him as soon as he picks it up, return it to its spot and bring him back to the center. Don't give him the success of returning with the wrong bumper. This is a form of attrition." "And remember-no collar corrections are used at this stage of the game for making wrong decisions."
    Just wanted to read that article from the retriever Journal Feb/Mar 1998 again. I believe the article is in one of his Volumes on Training. Very good! Just FYI
    Mike's talking about introducing the drill to a dog unfamiliar with the behaviors at that point Mary Lynn. "no collar corrections are used at this stage of the game for making wrong decisions".

    #1 We aren't at "that stage of the game"...
    #2 Yanking a dog's neck or swatting it with a stick to "guide" is just a different form of pressure than I'm using to re-enforce the behavior
    #3 Abruptly stopping a dog with a leash is certainly not comfortable, is it?
    #4 The qualifier "at this stage of the game" indicates to me that there will be a time and place for the collar in this drill

    I don't see what I'm doing as any more aversive than those things Mike advocates. It's just different, that's all. In fact, at the level I use an e-collar, it's actually a more gentle approach in most cases. Trust me, you'd rather put the collar on and have me push the button than to have me step on the leash when you're running full steam.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 03-27-2014 at 07:00 PM.
    Darrin Greene

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    You don't think that new people don't look at these videos and say "wow ,I think I will try that with my dog!"
    I am just going off of what you said Darrin...."the first day of doing the drill"..(nowhere does it say she already knows what to do here) ..most people will intro the first tier and get that solid, going first one way and then the other, with no ecollar use and use attrition and then they will introduce the second tier, again with no ecollar. (Likely on a different day) Just using "no here" for corrections. Of course creating and maintaining push/pull standards
    You are doing it different from the pros I learn from, that is all. She looks like a very fun , willing dog
    Last edited by Bridget Bodine; 03-27-2014 at 07:07 PM.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    There are 1000's of videos all over youtube. If someone is going to take a video with no explanation and try it with their dog, they will find someone else's and use it. I would have to publish nothing ever anywhere to avoid that phenomena.

    As it is publishing video is a standard part of my social media strategy and drives traffic to my website, which in turn brings me business.

    Posting them here is to get some critiques from people I trust. It takes some sorting of wheat and chaff but they have been helpful.
    Darrin Greene

  6. #26
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    I quite honestly cant figure out whats going on in the video. Seems to me there are a lot of mistakes on the dogs part. I would think a two year old would do much better than this. She does move with you very well though. I rarely do the wagon wheel, I only do it with a dog that is having a hard time understanding lining and then only do it two or three times and move on

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