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Thread: Comparison of drills with and without collar use

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    As you can seen Hope is capable of the drill and just has to collect herself. This is literally the second time she's seen it and she does a decent job without a collar on, but it needs to be better.
    Agree, but will an e-collar make her better?
    Not knowing any background of the dog's previous training these are my observation:
    -dog enters the circle on #1 unfocused looking at and sniffing the ground on #2 dog enter focused and attentive anticipating being worked.
    - dog's gait is faster and happier without the collar,
    - dog's delivery less controlled without collar
    - the dog has a decreased obedience level without a collar
    - handler sends dog faster without a collar
    The dog is perfectly capable of the retrieves. IMHO the difference in the videos is the quality of line manners.
    Placing a collar on a dog is in and of itself a cue, its time to work. It would interesting to see the dog's reaction to heel and sit several times as walking into the circle w/o a collar to identify work time.
    What happens with this dog on remote recall without retrieving? Do you teach precision heeling before CC.

    Tim
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  2. #32
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Looks good Darrin
    I must be dopey because I didn't see many corrections . Only re-enforcements
    Pete
    yea, but you throw hotdogs on the ground to teach focus too :P
    Darrin Greene

  3. #33
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Actually in your post #6 I thought you explained that you were trying to use the drill to practice line manners, which I categorize as team work. What I see is a fast dog with an impatient handler. At that 44 second mark you have nicked her at least three times in as many seconds. The instant she has her bottom at heel you send her for the bumper. I think some other folks suggested that you slow down as well.
    Ah, yes.... but... do you want to slow down and make a drill look clean or teach the dog to react quickly and accurately when she is already high as a kite?

    That's something to think about.

    I remember toning myself and everything down before going into a bomb detection exercise and the trainer who was my boss at the time (whose a FT guy but also does Shutzund) telling me... Don't try to bring her down... She has to learn to think when she's high.

    The drill that day was ugly but it made an impression on me.

    Your dog is gonna be high as a kite in a trial. Will you have taught her to think in that state of mind or... will the wheels come off?
    Darrin Greene

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Carrion View Post
    Agree, but will an e-collar make her better?

    What happens with this dog on remote recall without retrieving? Do you teach precision heeling before CC.

    Tim
    I don't know if the e collar is the answer, in fact, at this point, I doubt it Tim.

    When you say remote recall I assume you mean a simple "here" command, in which case she comes like a rocket with or without collar and heels to which ever side I verbally tell her (no body English necessary).

    She was taught precision heeling with the collar and retrieve reward actually. I did not teach it prior to CC.

    She was collar conditioned very early relative to normal progression.

    It would be really interesting to talk to you about her and where we are. Hope we get a chance sometime.
    Darrin Greene

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    Just stepping on her foot does not work. She does not tuck the foot in and sit straight. She jumps up and away from me when I touch her foot. That is why I take the step forward and pop on the tab. On another note, when we do FTPand she receives a nick along with back command, she sits much nicer on the return.

    Thanks for the replies. Nice discussion.

    Dawn
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    I remember toning myself and everything down before going into a bomb detection exercise and the trainer who was my boss at the time (whose a FT guy but also does Shutzund) telling me... Don't try to bring her down... She has to learn to think when she's high.

    The drill that day was ugly but it made an impression on me.

    Your dog is gonna be high as a kite in a trial. Will you have taught her to think in that state of mind or... will the wheels come off?
    Fire Fighting when there is no fire is like pissing in a puddle! It just get's more wet. That's what my Drill Major told me Darrin
    Show the 'End result'? Of this 2 year old
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    Darrin

    Simple but very sincere question.

    What do you think the purpose of the LWW is?

    What are you trying to achieve for what use?

    So far, few have addressed what skills you are practicing that might be valuable in competition.

    Cheers
    Dennis

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlygold View Post
    Just stepping on her foot does not work. She does not tuck the foot in and sit straight. She jumps up and away from me when I touch her foot. That is why I take the step forward and pop on the tab. On another note, when we do FTPand she receives a nick along with back command, she sits much nicer on the return.

    Thanks for the replies. Nice discussion.

    Dawn
    Don't get in the habit of moving forward to correct a bad sit ...try moving backwards ...If at an event you may not have the options of forward motion...I believe it is the first step in the direction of creeping....I don't like to encourage forward movement....The extra movement is a result of too much pressure...just a slight touch may get you the proper results...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  10. #40
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    Ah, yes.... but... do you want to slow down and make a drill look clean or teach the dog to react quickly and accurately when she is already high as a kite?

    That's something to think about.

    I remember toning myself and everything down before going into a bomb detection exercise and the trainer who was my boss at the time (whose a FT guy but also does Shutzund) telling me... Don't try to bring her down... She has to learn to think when she's high.

    The drill that day was ugly but it made an impression on me.

    Your dog is gonna be high as a kite in a trial. Will you have taught her to think in that state of mind or... will the wheels come off?
    While many of us like training opportunities that get the dog high, so that we can train through them, I have never noticed dogs getting high from fast handling. I'm not seeing the connection between fast handling and success in field trials or hunt tests.

    If you are handling quickly on purpose, my guess is that you are trying to increase the odds that dog makes a mistake so that you can get a correction in. I'd rather not play a guessing game though, I got better things to do. Perhaps your response to Dennis Voigt's comment will clear things up for me and others.
    Last edited by mitty; 03-29-2014 at 07:46 AM. Reason: spelling
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