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Thread: Casting Issue (OVERS) scalloping back

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Default Casting Issue (OVERS) scalloping back

    15 month old BLF has started having some issues on her over cast in the last 2 weeks, She will take the cast for about 5 to 10 yards then she self employees herself and basically does what she wants, which is mostly to turn and dig back, or dig back and start hunting.

    I have used attrition, and started doing walk behinds to close the distance, but seems were getting nowhere! Basically she takes my cast, and it seems she thinks she got in her head she knows more than me and does what she wants !

    I may add I have used indirect pressure on the last 2 blinds I have ran, and that did not seem to help much !

    I know everyone will ask so YES she has been through a established program, has been force fetched, been through T and TT, Pattern blinds, Blind drills, and we are working on diversion drills, and working on de-cheating no no drills and waiting patiently for the water to warm to complete swim-by

    I do walking baseball with her a minimum of 2 days a week, and work in 8 bumper wagon wheel casting drill after running the wagon wheel from center a couple times a week as well, I have no issues during drill work, and will take any cast I give her with bumper in mouth ! This issue is showing up during our diversion drills and blind drills ! It's not that she is taking a line to the old falls, she just refuses to carry out her cast that's giving !


    EXAMPLE:
    Today I ran a drill were I had 1 blind at 110 yards to the left and another blind set at 75 yards to the right, with a winger set to throw towards the line of the blind on the left for a 60 yard mark . I ran the blind to the right 1st, and she lined it, returned to heel, launched winger with bird in mouth, sent to mark and returned, lined up to the left side blind she took a good line for about 90 yards, and drifted right! I stopped her and gave a left over to get her back on line. She took the cast for 5 yards turned a went back, I stopped her again , and same thing, which put her off line and 20 yards past blind. I moved up called her in to the spot she took bad cast, and re casted, with same result. This went on for 3 or 4 times until she finally took the cast which took her to the bird.

    Any drills or tips to correct this ? or keep hammering her with attrition till it gets through her head ?
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    Did you do eight handed casting? What direction was the wind in the example?
    Rereading-you did do eight handed casting. Overs are my last choice for getting a dog back on line. I predominately use angle backs before they get so far off line.

    In doing your walking baseball make sure there is lots of distance from you to the dog.

    Dogs hate to cast into the wind and it takes lots of work to get young dogs to do it.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 03-25-2014 at 02:58 PM.
    Wayne Nutt
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Twin Willows Labs's Avatar
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    Its clear you need to back up a little. Hopefully someone with more experience with me can advise that. Might this be a candidate for reverse T? The other thing I might try is a little OB session before running these blinds, just to remind her who is in charge. Young dogs can get "wise" and try to accomplish your goal for you. Key word being "try". Sounds like she needs to remember that your casts are not suggestions.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    I know your waiting for water, but dog is ready for water-forcing and swim-by (which solidifies the over casts), and a variety of other items dogs will try at this stage . You can do the swim-by on land; some people like to get the pattern established before they hit the beach. It's done on a t-field, and you cast the dog with the bumper in it's mouth over past you, and teach her to carry the over until you tell her to stop (I put up stakes so I & the dog know where they have to go, straight over between the 2 stakes, once that's establish I cast pass the stakes until it looks like they'll go on forever, then call them in). It can work, of course it's easier to do all of this in water with a pond to call a dog back thru and to swim across. but when you don't have water you get inventive . Also 5 stake lining drills the dog knows they have to go to the stake so they better run hard straight there, (no goofing off );then change from lining setup to a casting drill, and cast the dog over to other stakes, then inbtw stakes (a hole bunch of ways to establish you go where I say ).

    Another note, dogs have to learn indirect pressure, figure you've been doing only direct pressure with back piles etc. At this point pressure means (go fast go hard go back). So wrong cast, sit whistle (NO) nick) probably has your dog wanting to take off somewhere, or perhaps looking at you like your insane. The pup will have lag on collar corrections of this type until she realizes why she's getting them, and what she needs to do to not get them. You need to slow everything down. When you correct her with the collar; let her recover (get the weird out); then re-sit her and bring her in ( preferably to the spot she took the wrong cast). Sit her again, show her which direction you want with a hand near your chest; let her sit and think; then extend the arm and recast. Bringing a dog in usually works better than correcting a dog and recasting.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-25-2014 at 03:57 PM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    WAYNE !!! Now that you mention that about the wind she would have been taking the cast into a slight cross wind , Winds were blowing 15 out of the North West, and she would have been taking this cast into a North to North East direction! I am a new handler so there are still things I am learning about casting !
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Good tip HUNT'EMUP ! This winter weather just keeps holding on here, YES we are so ready for swim by !
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  7. #7
    Junior Member GRun's Avatar
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    Sounds like you are close and can probably get there with more attrition. After 1 or 2 scallops, I would get right out to the dog so that the next "over" is more like a yard cast than a field cast. Were the blinds in your example taught or previously used as a pattern blind? Sounds like they may have been cold, which would be a big step. Have you run your pattern blinds with diversions?. How did the "overs" go? Have you used indirect pressure to correct "overs" during yard casting drills.
    Jeff

  8. #8
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    If you're letting the dog ride until you need actual "overs" on a dinky 100 yard blind you're asleep at the wheel.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    To go along with what Breck said. If you are giving overs for a little "line correction", that's exactly what you'll get, a scallop.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    I'm letting the dog ride as much as possible to keep her momentum rolling ! I have gotten her blind attitude much better since we had such a battle for a bit ! I want her thinking she's going to run forever ! BRECK I understand what your saying, but regardless of the situation here if I give her an "over" I want an over !!! If it's 2 feet or 50 yards I want her to carry it until a bird is found or I stop her.
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

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