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Thread: Difference between a zero score and a "nonscore" in AKC Hunting Tests

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    Junior Member pagedog's Avatar
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    Default Difference between a zero score and a "nonscore" in AKC Hunting Tests

    The difference between a zero score and a "nonscore" in AKC Hunting Tests is discussed on page 40 in "Regulations and Guidelines for AKC Hunting Tests for Retrievers." I'm not sure I can distinguish between the two. A zero is given when a dog is not able (failed) to exhibit an ability. The nonscore is given when the dog was not given the opportunity to attempt to show that he/she could complete the ability. How could a judge not give every dog a chance to try? Wouldn't every dog entered have a chance? And how do you calculate an "X" into the dog's score. I am sure I am missing something. Can anyone help?

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    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Well...I have received both. My dog broke and I'm sure that I got a ZERO. My dog crept out a mere 20 feet and wouldn't reheel, Judge had me pick him up and I'm sure that I got a "non score". I'm just guessing on these as I was too ashamed to ask.

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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    The dog is not given the opportunity to exhibit marking on a blind retrieve, for example.

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    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Spann View Post
    Well...I have received both. My dog broke and I'm sure that I got a ZERO. My dog crept out a mere 20 feet and wouldn't reheel, Judge had me pick him up and I'm sure that I got a "non score". I'm just guessing on these as I was too ashamed to ask.

    Lonnie Spann
    That would be TWO zero's on trainability
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    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Perseverance; there was nothing particularly demanding in the test that required perseverance?

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    Junior Member pagedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    The dog is not given the opportunity to exhibit marking on a blind retrieve, for example.
    But the judge's evaluation form does not provide for a score for marking so a score in marking on a blind is not calculated into the "average score all series." Looks like a zero or a noscore would not be applicable in that case. What about this situation: The dog is an excellent marker and on a triple in the first series, he lines each bird without even a hint of a hunt--he does not get a chance to show his "hunting" ability. In the other two series, he had to hunt but each was well within the area of the fall and deserved a score above 8. Could the judges give him a noscore (an X) for the hunting category in the first series because they had nothing to evaluate and score? Then how would the X be calculated into the average score? Assume there were 3 marking series in the hunting test. The judges will have to give 3 separate scores (0 - 10) for marking, style, perseverance (which includes hunting) and divide each by 3 for an average. In our scenario, the judges give him an X for hunting. Do they now divide the scores left by 2 for the average? But hunting is a characteristic in the "Perseverance" category as is courage. If they give this dog an X, they are eliminating a dog that may show exceptional courage, like having to break skim ice to get in the water. Again, I suspect that I am missing something pretty simple.

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    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagedog View Post
    Again, I suspect that I am missing something pretty simple.
    Yes. Read the rules again and it will explain it. A nonscore is given when the opportunity to score the dog on that ability did not present itself, not because the judges decided not to let the dog do something. An "X" does not go into the denominator, so while a 8,6,4 would give you an average of 6 a 8,6,X would give an average of 7.

    Think of it as I explained it the first time--a dog cannot exhibit marking on a blind--yet the AKC filled in the box under marking with an X instead of shading it for you.

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    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    A non-score is not taken into account during the tabulation, there was nothing to score thus it's doesn't hinder and it doesn't help. Example; 3 triples one has a diversion (the other 2 series don't have a diversion = (non-score XX), thus the only grade the dog will get for the diversion is whatever it scored in the one series) (8,X,X =8). A zero (is a failure of a tested skill), if I recall a 0 in a skill-set is automatic failure, however if the dog got say a 1 or 2 those scores would be taken in to account in the tabulation (1+8+7)/3 average score in that category= 5 could still be in mathematically, depending on the scores all the other categories. Basically non-score = Can't knock a dog for a skill it was never tested on, but (Zero-low score) Shows a failure of a tested skill.

    Had a Judge tell me once, after a phenomenal first series and an interesting circumstance (trailing); that the dogs scores were so high; if she had only gotten a 1 we'd still be in; said judge's name is in a little book somewhere .
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 03-31-2014 at 03:37 PM.
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    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pagedog View Post
    ....... What about this situation: The dog is an excellent marker and on a triple in the first series, he lines each bird without even a hint of a hunt--he does not get a chance to show his "hunting" ability..........
    sure he did, it just didn't take him very long
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    We'll kep it simple.

    In Junior, a bird goes up and down and the dog sits quietly at heel. The dog is released and promptly leaves. After a couple of minutes and for whatever reason, the handler blows the whistle and the dog sits. The handler give a right angle back and the dog takes it and proceeds 20 yards to the bird, picks it up and returns to deliver to hand.

    The dog will get high marks for trainability, probably for perseverance, and probably for style. What about marking? The dog will receive no score for marking for that series because he didn't demonstrate marking. When all the scores are tabulated and averaged, the average for marking will come from 3 scores, not 4.
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