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Thread: Too Many Trials, Too Few Judges?

  1. #111
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    We sure have a problem but maybe it is deeper than just lack of judges. Sportsmanship seems to be lacking. As good sportsmen we should take our time to judge and do the best we can, also encourage others to judge and if we feel the need offer constructive criticism, not just throw folks under the bus for poor test design. I always look at and ask those I think are good judges and handles to offer comments on my test after the trial. As far as getting less experienced judges more opportunity this should be a prioriety among the clubs. I have just 10 AA points so am I experienced not by most standards. Asking those less experienced to judge is going to be critical to expanding the pool. I always think what a waste when you see two judges who both have 100 points judge together although it is usually a good trial. Those that are good judges and mentors should insist on judgeing wilth less experienced folks to spread their knowledge base.
    Very good point, I feel the same way. Why fly two high point judges in when you could fly one experienced mentor judge to take a relative newbie under his or wing for the weekend. I know some would be worried that the old timer would dominate on test set up, call backs and placements, but that wasn't the case with the good judges I was put with in my early trials. These people to a man (women in one case), bent over backwards to insure I was 50% of the equation while teaching me a lot at the same time.

  2. #112
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Very good point, I feel the same way. Why fly two high point judges in when you could fly one experienced mentor judge to take a relative newbie under his or wing for the weekend. I know some would be worried that the old timer would dominate on test set up, call backs and placements, but that wasn't the case with the good judges I was put with in my early trials. These people to a man (women in one case), bent over backwards to insure I was 50% of the equation while teaching me a lot at the same time.
    Very true John, or fly in a less experienced and let one of the locals mentor them. Nothing says you cant bring in a less experienced judge and give them a good experience. Then the less experienced judge doesnt have to give up all thier weekends to judge trials only on thier circuit.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  3. #113
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    as a note for those trying to solve the judging issues: i don't think statements like "we should all give back to the sport" is useful in the recruitment of "new people" to judge.

    most new people aint took nothin' yet!
    john mccallie

  4. #114
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    We sure have a problem but maybe it is deeper than just lack of judges. Sportsmanship seems to be lacking. As good sportsmen we should take our time to judge and do the best we can, also encourage others to judge and if we feel the need offer constructive criticism, not just throw folks under the bus for poor test design. I always look at and ask those I think are good judges and handles to offer comments on my test after the trial. As far as getting less experienced judges more opportunity this should be a prioriety among the clubs. I have just 10 AA points so am I experienced not by most standards. Asking those less experienced to judge is going to be critical to expanding the pool. I always think what a waste when you see two judges who both have 100 points judge together although it is usually a good trial. Those that are good judges and mentors should insist on judgeing wilth less experienced folks to spread their knowledge base.
    I'm going to use this as an opportunity, since Mike won the particular Open I judged, I'm sure he won't mind, but he brought up a good point - the ability to provide feedback without throwing someone under the bus. This trial was at Red River this Spring. After the trail, a person who I respect in the game was having dinner with everyone (this person happened to go out in our first series), asked me what I learned from this assignment? What I would do different? What I thought of the setups? We went bird by bird and talked about the good and the bad. It was criticism without the venom of a Monday morning RTF bus ride, plus it gave me the opportunity to think about it all without the craziness of actually judging. I do know myself and my co-judge gave it our best, but sometimes it doesn't seem like it when you are a handler or an owner at home getting sketchy updates - it's easy to just blame the judges. I learned a lot and it was very helpful to talk with someone who saw our tests from the outside in, plus they were able to mentor indirectly without making me feel like a horses ass or feel the need to get defensive. So there are good sportsmen/women out their, just wished there were more - judging is thankless, but sometimes a friendly conversation can help you realize it isn't so bad and everyone isn't bitter over some perceived injustice.

    I also know this person reads RTF, so thank you for our conversation and sharing your onion rings!
    Last edited by FOM; 04-09-2014 at 02:40 PM.
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  5. #115
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    Maybe I should start judging again?? Maybe not
    "You can train your dog any way ya want. It ain't my dog. "

  6. #116
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Rozas View Post
    Maybe I should start judging again?? Maybe not
    And some might say let sleeping dogs lie.

  7. #117
    Senior Member MikeBoley's Avatar
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    FOM that is how it should be. My last assignment there are some minor things I would like to have changed. If we could give feed back in a way to improve judging with out tthrowing people under the bus it would be great. Everyone who has judged has laid an egg. If you learned from it great. Just dont hatch it once you laid it.

    On a side note I thought your test were good and fair, I truely didnt know I had won but was overjoyed to find out. Thanks again for giving up your time.


    As to the person who said newbies havent taken yet I doubt that, start early giving back you will never give back as much as we all take.
    'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' - Bear Bryant / Alabama

  8. #118
    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBoley View Post
    On a side note I thought your test were good and fair, I truely didnt know I had won but was overjoyed to find out. Thanks again for giving up your time.
    Hell I didn't know you won either until we had handed the placements to the Marshal and then I looked at the dogs...Chili just drilled all his marks, it was fun to watch!
    "You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.

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  9. #119

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    The news will soon publish"callbacks" which will have major and minor judges eg the traditional 8 major and 8minor list also that recent contact information if you have any changes they should be sent ASAP to Retrieve News.
    We need the retriever community to be interest we need your comments they are so important to all, also we will be publishing a follow up article regarding community reactions and anyone is welcome to write to John Stracka with their private thoughts to be possibly included. Here is John email johnstracka@gmail.com don't just think about this then keep it to your self we are trying to get everyone involved to better this sport now come on let's get it started.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Very good point, I feel the same way. Why fly two high point judges in when you could fly one experienced mentor judge to take a relative newbie under his or wing for the weekend. I know some would be worried that the old timer would dominate on test set up, call backs and placements, but that wasn't the case with the good judges I was put with in my early trials. These people to a man (women in one case), bent over backwards to insure I was 50% of the equation while teaching me a lot at the same time.
    John

    When I started the Open had 40 dogs. Now the Open has 60-100 dogs. An 80+ dog Open is not the place to earn your stripes. In the larger All Age Stakes, I think a club should have two experienced judges. I believe this is where the Apprentice program can be of benefit.

    I also prefer the give and take of call backs and placements with two experienced judges rather than one experienced judge and a newbie

    Ted
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