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Thread: Derby questions and discussion

  1. #1
    Senior Member Twin Willows Labs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Derby questions and discussion

    My pup is coming around nicely at 10 months. I've never seen a dog with drive like this at such a young age. Having never run a dog competitively before, I am debating the merits of running her in a derby. I would like some information and even (gasp!) opinions. I know the best way to learn will be to get out and run one, but I don't want to be flying blind.

    I know a derby consists of only marks, but how are they formatted? (singles and doubles? triples? how many rounds?)
    What are some of the pros and cons to running a dog in a derby?
    What do you want to see in the dog before entering a derby?
    Are there other pros/cons to running one?

    Thanks in advance.
    "If you're too busy to duck hunt, you're too busy" - Jase Robertson
    "You're going hunting again? In this weather?" - My fiance


    Twin Willows Lil Miss Zoey JH
    Soon to be the next big thing.
    Andrew's Baby Saint
    The queen bee. Old and deaf. My version of the once-in-a-lifetime dog. I regret not sharing her with the world.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Chris Videtto's Avatar
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    Take a read through this thread. Lots of info on the Derby.

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...y+requirements
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    Brownstone's Harley- "Harley" 7/29/2009 (By CH Woodhull's Roger That)
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  3. #3
    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    You have a good retriever club with great training grounds right in your back yard; Wisconsin Amateur RC.

    http://waftc.org

    Check out the web site and get hold of Tom. If you are willing to get your hands a little dirty, they will help you as long as you will listen.

    Good luck.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I have only run one derby but will describe it for you.
    First series land:
    A double with flyer. Memory bird at 100 yards thrown in front of a tree. Flyer was 160 yards thrown and shot at an angle back over the horizon.
    Second series land:
    A double. Memory dead bird at 330 yards thrown into a tree line. Go bird was 160 yards thrown from in front of a tree to land in front of another tree. A flat throw beneath tree limbs.
    Third series water:
    I forgot to measure distances. Double. Memory bird thrown on levee at the end of a channel at about 150 plus yards. But not a direct swim down channel but across a cove and angle into channel at the end. Go bird was an in out in out mark (across a peninsula) at about 125 yards.
    Fourth series: I didn't make it this far.

    I didn't think the test was particularly hard. Rowdy just messes up on the water memory bird. So close though.
    Some things to practice:
    Flat throws
    Throws to land in front of trees.
    Low visibility marks. It was cloudy and drizzling rain on and off all day.
    Most were taking dogs to mat on a lead. I didn't though.
    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 04-04-2014 at 08:04 AM.
    Wayne Nutt
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Labs R Us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    I have only run one derby but will describe it for you.
    First series land:
    A double with flyer. Memory bird at 100 yards thrown in front of a tree. Flyer was 160 yards thrown and shot at an angle back over the horizon.
    Second series land:
    A double. Memory dead bird at 330 yards thrown into a tree line. Go bird was 160 yards thrown from in front of a tree to land in front of another tree. A flat throw beneath tree limbs.
    Third series water:
    I forgot to measure distances. Double. Memory bird thrown on levee at the end of a channel at about 150 plus yards. But not a direct swim down channel but across a cove and angle into channel at the end. Go bird was an in out in out mark (across a peninsula) at about 125 yards.
    Fourth series: I didn't make it this far.

    I didn't think the test was particularly hard. Rowdy just messes up on the water memory bird. So close though.
    Some things to practice:
    Flat throws
    Throws to land in front of trees.
    Low visibility marks. It was cloudy and drizzling rain on and off all day.
    Most were taking dogs to mat on a lead. I didn't though.
    Hope this helps.
    Good info ... Thanks Wayne.
    Becky
    Life is Good . . . Do what you like - Like what you do.

  6. #6
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    some derby pics from past year that i was in attendance (and competing) in

    image-4_zps1b8904f0.jpgimage-5_zps53897e61.jpgimage-6_zps1d86332a.jpgimage-7_zpsc84eb11b.jpgphoto 57.jpgphoto 58.jpgphoto 59.jpgSeries 1edited.jpgSeries 2b edited.jpgSeries 3b edited.jpg


    the sattelite pics are the ones from ravenna a few weeks ago. i was particulary proud of my dog as it was his last derby and half the field was dropped on the water 2nd. we finished with a jam but that land pic with the pinched marks almost got us. he came back from the go bird locked in on the go bird station changed heeling side and blocked it go him lined up on the long station and gave him a "good right there" with my hand cue. gave one of the loudest sends i have ever sent him on. he took off like a bolt and right when he passed the tree where the go bird was he kind of slowed down to a light run and i just put my hands in my face. then he slammed on the gas again. and took off for the memory. i fully believe if it wasnt for the loud send he would of stopped and hunted old fall. when he came back the judges said "he knew where he was going he just wanted to scare you" to which i replied "he done a little more than scare me"

  7. #7
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Despite the original intension that Derby test being all about sorting out the best natural markers, and I think most trials do that in the end, there are also a lot of trained attributes that if you fall short will eliminate your dog from contention. Things that could trap a newbie who hasn't trained with FT trainers are:

    1) Water cheating set ups. I'd say about half the derbies I have run have had a inviting cheat on the water. Be prepared for this, don't be caught flat footed if your dog bounces off the angle entry and runs a hundred miles an hour down the shore. If you let him go and he pins the bird, regardless what the rules say, nine times out of ten, that drops you to a JAM even if your work is otherwise perfect. That plus you just let your dog get rewarded with a bird for cheating. Better to blow the whistle and handle or just pick him up.

    2) You need to train with live flyers and simulated flyers. Get you dog comfortable focusing on a dead bird station way beyond and tight to the flyer. Get your dog comfortable running past a flyer to get that long bird. Train your dog to not go back to the flyer, but don't overdo it, or you will have a big banana line, pushing off short guns forever.

    3) Train on the standard marking concepts, out and out, pinched and the two hip pockets. After a while your dog will recognize a test and be comfortable watching birds go down in order.

    4) Obedience, obedience, obedience! Train with holding blinds and mats. Have a training buddy act as judge, yell out "guns-up", dog 32 to the line. Hold very high standards of sitting in the blind, heeling perfectly from the holding blind to the line or mat, sitting perfect on line, work on moving him right and left to pick out guns, make sure he or she sits still and watches intently while birds go down. If any of this isn't perfect, heel back to the holding blind, pick up the birds and start over. It all starts here.

    5) Have fun. There is nothing more fun than running a talented-energetic-happy dog in the derby. It's also a great place to get your feet wet in field trials.

    John

  8. #8
    Senior Member Twin Willows Labs's Avatar
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    Thanks John! My pup definitely fits the criteria of your number 5. She's got drive to spare.

    I was originally planning on running her through HT's, and I may still do that, but I would like to see how good she (and I) can be.
    She can run derby up to 2, right? I may just spend this season putting her through her Senior title (she's 10 months old currently) this summer.
    "If you're too busy to duck hunt, you're too busy" - Jase Robertson
    "You're going hunting again? In this weather?" - My fiance


    Twin Willows Lil Miss Zoey JH
    Soon to be the next big thing.
    Andrew's Baby Saint
    The queen bee. Old and deaf. My version of the once-in-a-lifetime dog. I regret not sharing her with the world.

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