The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: True Labrador Retrievers??????

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    East TX
    Posts
    4

    Default True Labrador Retrievers??????

    Very important question regarding ligament registered Labrador Retrievers. There is several debates regarding colors of labs and if they can be registered. To the best of my knowledge there is three official colors black, yellow, and chocolate. And all labs have to be registered as such. My question is, what about miss marked labs, such as black with brown socks and brown mussel(with both parents being registered labs)? Is this a genetic flaw? Is this a sign of mixed breeding somewhere in the gene pool ?Are they even "pure bread labs"? And if so can they legitimately registered? And if they can be registered how would you classify a multi color lab?.......I have seen several debates on this subject and would like some clarification. Thanks in advance for all you help. Any info you can give me on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    301

    Default

    Yes, they are evidence of a another breed in the gene pool, but from a breeding that was done before the stud book was closed. For example, the tan points you mention are thought to be from bringing in a Gordon Setter. Yes they are registerable by their dominant color, but it is a disqualification according to the standard and shouldn't be bred from... and ideally placed on limited registration to assure that doesn't happen.

  3. #3
    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    2,845

    Default

    There are different kinds of mismarks. My dog has a small somatic mutation. This is not an indicator of something in the gene pool. As so often happens on RTF, I guess the answer is "it depends."
    ---------------------------------------------
    HRCH "Boomer" MH
    UH HR "Hunter" SH (RIP)

    "When you go to a test or a trial, your dog should be underwhelmed." ~ Evan Graham

    "It is unreasonable to expect a dog to be more precise than you are." ~ Rex Carr

    "You own what you condone." ~ Mike Lardy

  4. #4
    Senior Member Swack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
    Yes, they are evidence of a another breed in the gene pool, but from a breeding that was done before the stud book was closed. For example, the tan points you mention are thought to be from bringing in a Gordon Setter. Yes they are registerable by their dominant color, but it is a disqualification according to the standard and shouldn't be bred from... and ideally placed on limited registration to assure that doesn't happen.
    Nicole,

    It's na´ve to believe that the only place tan points may have originated is from the Gordon before the stud book was closed. Did you listen to the recording of Mary Roslin-Williams that was recently posted? She was aware of several examples of other breeds being crossed into the Labrador gene pool during her lifetime.

    In her book Advanced Labrador Breeding, she states that black and tan pointed puppies is a very recent throw back (the book was published in 1988) and is very un-Labrador and she hates it. She went on to say that she is quite sure that the Labrador marked like this really is wrongly bred and recently too, and that we had a Rottweiler or a Doberman come in sometime either during or after the second World War.

    I've personally seen a CH/MH Lab whose owner told me occasional threw black and tan point puppies. He had a Rottie head and worse, he had a Rottie attitude. He was an arrogant SOB, who had no interest in moving 3 feet to come see me. He turned his head away from his owner to prevent the delivery of a bumper to hand multiple times. I wouldn't have used him for stud if I were paid, regardless of his titles.

    So, haildown2012, I would be very suspect of the lineage of the dog. I wouldn't breed from the dog. IMHO, it's likely there is some foreign blood behind such mis-markings. One could argue that there are no Labs alive that are Pure-bred, as they all likely have some foreign blood in them from the earliest days of the breed, and most likely have some foreign blood from more recent times. I had a Lab who was built more like an English pointer, both body and head. Long lean lanky, hard to keep weight on, ribs and hip bones showing a little; and he had the attitude that the bird is just over the horizon. He was a very talented dog in the field, but not my image of a true Labrador.

    Swack
    Jeff Swackhamer

  5. #5
    Senior Member Nicole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    East Lansing, MI
    Posts
    301

    Default

    Jeff, I stand corrected. For some reason Gordon stuck in my mind while reading her book because she mentioned the breed many times when describing the coloring, but you are correct that the added breed was more than likely rottie or dobe.

    Thanks for making me pick up the book again

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    East TX
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swack View Post
    Nicole,

    It's na´ve to believe that the only place tan points may have originated is from the Gordon before the stud book was closed. Did you listen to the recording of Mary Roslin-Williams that was recently posted? She was aware of several examples of other breeds being crossed into the Labrador gene pool during her lifetime.

    In her book Advanced Labrador Breeding, she states that black and tan pointed puppies is a very recent throw back (the book was published in 1988) and is very un-Labrador and she hates it. She went on to say that she is quite sure that the Labrador marked like this really is wrongly bred and recently too, and that we had a Rottweiler or a Doberman come in sometime either during or after the second World War.

    I've personally seen a CH/MH Lab whose owner told me occasional threw black and tan point puppies. He had a Rottie head and worse, he had a Rottie attitude. He was an arrogant SOB, who had no interest in moving 3 feet to come see me. He turned his head away from his owner to prevent the delivery of a bumper to hand multiple times. I wouldn't have used him for stud if I were paid, regardless of his titles.

    So, haildown2012, I would be very suspect of the lineage of the dog. I wouldn't breed from the dog. IMHO, it's likely there is some foreign blood behind such mis-markings. One could argue that there are no Labs alive that are Pure-bred, as they all likely have some foreign blood in them from the earliest days of the breed, and most likely have some foreign blood from more recent times. I had a Lab who was built more like an English pointer, both body and head. Long lean lanky, hard to keep weight on, ribs and hip bones showing a little; and he had the attitude that the bird is just over the horizon. He was a very talented dog in the field, but not my image of a true Labrador.

    Swack
    Not looking to get a pup with this "problem", I have just seen this as a topic of discussion and just wanted to get personal clarification for my own personal knowledge.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •