The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 65

Thread: over 1K a day wonder drug

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Vancouver CANADA
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I refer you to your 1st sentence accusing Gerry of running away from the thread. I also refer you to YOUR post accusing me of "posting nonsense" and my reply requesting you to IDENTIFY the "nonsense that I have posted. Your lack of response is evident. Maybe you are the "pot calling the kettle black", don't you think??????
    Cary, I am indeed sorry if I have failed to respond to you on another thread. if you could remind me which of your posts I need to review, I try to give you an answer. Thank you for drawing my attention to my oversight and possible evidence of a double standard in my shout out to Gerry.
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

    A big man never looks down on others.... instead, he is someone to look up to.

  2. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Absolutely right Paul. Cary, I don't believe that our healthcare costs as a percent of GDP, taken alone adds anything to this thread. So I dredged up a graph that shows spending as a percent of GDP for all G7 countries. I was trying to point out that part of the reason we pay more is because we are charged more by Pharma and the Medical Industrial Complex. Unfortunately you threw in three consecutive posts throwing the thread way off topic.

    Your contention has always been that costs skyrocketed because we instituted medicare. So, what have all these other countries done right that we have not?

    Buzz, YOU were the one who brought up healthcare in your post #11, not me. So if I am off topic then your post started it. Just keeping the FACTS straight. As to your graph and how other countries are doing better than the US, you and I both know ALL countries wind up with healthcare costing 100% of GDP. The other countries get there just a little slower than we do. Maybe a slower death is better than a slower death but it is still death just the same.

    As to Blind's criticism of Gerry, if she is guilty, then so is he.

    Many here may not remember the investigations of Richard Nixon and HIS cover up. This country spent far more times of the legislative, executive and judicial systems about "WHO KNEW WHAT AND WHEN"(statement credited to Howard Baker(R). Never was there and evidence that Nixon either knew or authorized Watergate, only that he tried to cover it up for political reasons. Not once have I criticized the administration for the deaths in Bengazi. For sure I do not have any knowledge to do so. Furthermore, people make mistakes and those mistakes can cost lives. It happens but THE LEAST those responsible can do is take responsibility. I can respect that. Fact is, I will never understand why Nixon didn't fire those who were responsible and take the heat. He would have been far better off. I do believe that the story about the utube video was a joke and Obama may well have been better had he taken the hits. At least I would have had more respect for him. When he once made the statement that "the shovel ready jobs were not so shovel ready", is a classic and only example where he admitted his mistake.

    We all know that MJ is a lawyer. Even though my family is full of lawyers, brother-in-law, 2 nephews and a neise. The hair still stands on the back of my neck when around one. I always claim lawyers like to blow smoke and was just trying to pin him down in a friendly way. I feel sure he knows I meant no disrespect. I am curious whether he will answer yes or no but won't be surprised if he posts a picture of a guy blowing smoke from a big cigar.

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    Cary, I am indeed sorry if I have failed to respond to you on another thread. if you could remind me which of your posts I need to review, I try to give you an answer. Thank you for drawing my attention to my oversight and possible evidence of a double standard in my shout out to Gerry.
    Healthcare for profit started by 44 Magmun. My original post #23 and your post #25 which I later asked for specifics.

  4. #24
    Senior Member .44 magnum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    And it most likely is a man made version of Milk Thistle or SAM-E
    I like one-shot kills where possible and prefer to do all my hunting before I shoot. ..... Elmer Keith



  5. #25
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    Buzz, YOU were the one who brought up healthcare in your post #11, not me. So if I am off topic then your post started it. Just keeping the FACTS straight.

    I haven't read your entire post yet, because this threw me for a loop.

    Did you read the story at the link provided by the OP? It is specifically about the cost Pharma charges for treatment here vs. over seas.

    And then take a look at Gerry's response to that link. I was responding specifically to her claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Exactly. Income distribution is exactly what the Ds advocate, so why the objection to the pharma company cooperating with them? Do the Ds want Egyptians to die? Shame on them. What about other poor countries who aren't as wealthy as the US, aren't they entitled to affordable health care?

    As it usually turns out, those in favor of redistribution of wealth are fine with it as long as it is someone else's wealth that is being redistributed.
    Last edited by Buzz; 04-07-2014 at 11:37 AM.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,085

    Default

    Blind Ambition, Paul Young did get the sarcasm I was using in my early post. That's just what it was. I was using the same approach that people like Reid and Obama use ... if one opposes O-care, they must want poor people to die. That simply is not true. If one believes that Medicare needs changing so that it can continue to help the elderly poor, they run a downright foolish ad showing grandma in a wheelchair being pushed off a cliff.

    I don't recall if the drug we are discussing was actually developed in the US or some other country. If the drug company was, for example, Germany, would our Congress have a right to tell them what to sell their drug for in different countries? It can take a LOT more $ to get a drug approved in the US than some other countries. When we think of the unforeseen affects of Thalidomide, we can appreciate what that process tries to prevent. (Thalidomide, however, I believe, is a drug very effective in treating some diseases).

    I don't know what it cost to develop the drug being discussed here. However, at least part of the reason that any company would make investment in innovation is to generate a return on that investment. Investors are encouraged to invest in such companies with expectation of a return on their investment. During the process jobs are created; workers get paychecks and pay taxes to support govt programs to help poor people, along with other govt programs. Your pension plans, 401Ks, and private stock holdings then provide members of this forum with some wealth they would not otherwise have.

    If the cost of doing business in the US is greater than in another country, does the company have the right to charge more for their product in the US? I am not knowledgeable enough to know which govt regulations in pharma industry are reasonable or which may be excessive. Are there other countries, that have less ability to develop products and less ability (funds) to regulate an industry, simply benefit tangentially from the $ spent by the US in assuring drugs are safe? Therefore, those countries then remove the financial obstacles for those drugs which have been accepted by the US for safe use.

    Drug companies have done the same thing in providing AIDS/HIV drugs to Africa. Why didn't somebody get upset about that? The US pays much more for those drugs than the African countries.Isn't that very much the same as what is being disputed here?

    Yes, Paul, I agree that the US should be much more discerning in their involvement with managing other countries' affairs. However, when it comes to humanitarian efforts against starvation and medicine, I am less certain. Generally, though, it has seemed over time, that private charities do a better job of assuring that humanitarian aid gets to the right people, not into the hands of corrupt govt bureaucrats who grow wealthy from the suffering of their own people.

    Why did I not respond any further to this thread sooner? I wasn't even following it. For some reason, when my name got mentioned in the post, it came into my email mailbox ... best I can figure out.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

  7. #27
    Senior Member IowaBayDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    1,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blind ambition View Post
    Hold on Gerry are you suggesting it is OK for the US to practice International Socialism while condemning it domestically? Why should the sick in the US pay an exorbitant price for medicines to subsidize costs elsewhere, never mind the third world or the second, why should Solvadi cost only $58,000 in the UK and $84,000 in the US? Shouldn't you be praising the fiscal responsibility being shown by some members of congress on behalf of their tax burdened constituents?

    Fair and Balanced regards,
    Its simple Market Pricing. The companies base their price on what the Market will bear. They US will pay more for the latest drugs, it is proven over time. Don't like the price? Don't buy it. Or move to Egypt or the UK. If people stop buying it in the US the price will come down. As the company points out, at the current price it is still a better "deal" than having a transplant. They saved our system $90k/patient and the libs complain because it costs too much.
    ________________________________
    Dan Cram
    Skywatcher Salem Orchard Hard "Cider"

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Shelbyville, Tn
    Posts
    1,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I haven't read your entire post yet, because this threw me for a loop.

    Did you read the story at the link provided by the OP? It is specifically about the cost Pharma charges for treatment here vs. over seas.

    And then take a look at Gerry's response to that link. I was responding specifically to her claims.
    I knew that Gerry was speaking tongue in cheek and never dreamed that you, most of all would take it serious. This is not the 1st time that you have blamed anything or anybody for the rise in the cost of healthcare except the Government. Simply put, the cost of healthcare started to rise simultaneously with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, in 1965. A cost that had remained stable until that greatest intrusion into healthcare up until that date. That is the fact you and those of your beliefs want so hard to ignore. You ignore it because you can't refute it nor can you offer an alternative reason for the beginning of the increase.

    As to pharma, I have a VERY SIMPLE question. Don't you think doctors in the US would purchase this expensive drug from other countries at the lower price IF THE US GOVERNMENT ALLOWED IT???

  9. #29
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Brookings, South Dakota
    Posts
    6,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    I knew that Gerry was speaking tongue in cheek and never dreamed that you, most of all would take it serious. This is not the 1st time that you have blamed anything or anybody for the rise in the cost of healthcare except the Government. Simply put, the cost of healthcare started to rise simultaneously with the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, in 1965. A cost that had remained stable until that greatest intrusion into healthcare up until that date. That is the fact you and those of your beliefs want so hard to ignore. You ignore it because you can't refute it nor can you offer an alternative reason for the beginning of the increase.

    As to pharma, I have a VERY SIMPLE question. Don't you think doctors in the US would purchase this expensive drug from other countries at the lower price IF THE US GOVERNMENT ALLOWED IT???
    So, do you propose that we cut off the poor and elderly from healthcare to save money? Why can every other G7 nation provide healthcare to their entire population for half or less than we can?

    Who wrote into law that medicare cannot negotiate with drug companies on pricing? Who made it against the law for seniors to get on busses to Canada for the day with prescriptions in hand that they needed filled?
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
    (Esprit's Power Play x Trumarc's Lean Cuisine)
    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
    (Clubmead's Road Warrior x Oakdale Whitewater Devil Dog)
    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  10. #30
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    2,105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    So, do you propose that we cut off the poor and elderly from healthcare to save money? Why can every other G7 nation provide healthcare to their entire population for half or less than we can?
    buzz this is a great question.

    you know i wonder about the trial lawyers' in the other g7 counties. are lawyers still able to provide "power ball lottery" type punitive damages payments to any individual who incurrs a medical treatment mistake? if so i wonder if attorneys in the other g7 still collect 30 or 40 percent of the award?

    when we have a single payer system.......who can we sue? the government?, the governments doctors and nurses?, the governments facilities? big pharma? what will all our attorneys do when we take all the money out of health care and make it benevolent?

    idk
    john mccallie

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •