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Thread: Another FF Question...sorry

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    Senior Member ADB391's Avatar
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    Default Another FF Question...sorry

    I was reading a thread on here and didn't want to hijack it so here's my question.

    I have a 4 month old and I know FF is around the corner and will sneak up on me. I have a friend who had a really great dog, and now has that dogs grandson. They aren't titled or tested but they hunt like machines. As good of a hunting dog, and companion for that matter as I've seen with my own two eyes. Extremely obedient.

    I asked him yesterday, when the time comes if he'd help me with FF and he told me he's never done it. He never had to. When he was training the dogs (and other dogs) he'd walk around and make them carry a bumper. If they dropped it, he made them pick it up and carry it. Is this a fluke? Did he just get lucky twice? Or are there dogs out there that will never need FF?

    Thanks,

    Tony

  2. #2
    Senior Member weathered's Avatar
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    You have to decide how you want to train your dog; do you want to do ff and the following force training. Search for force fetch on this forum to learn more about it.

    Some dogs have a better natural tendency to pick up and hold things than others. I have a female that is not ff and will pick up anything I've ever asked her to. But ff has it's place and her daughter, who will also pick up anything I ask, is being force fetched now in hopes of a more "finished" end product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADB391 View Post

    I asked him yesterday, when the time comes if he'd help me with are FF and he told me he's never done it. He never had to. When he was training the dogs (and other dogs) he'd walk around and make them carry a bumper. If they dropped it, he made them pick it up and carry it. Is this a fluke? Did he just get lucky twice? Or are there dogs out there that will never need FF?

    Thanks,

    Tony
    Tony-
    There are hundreds, no,.. thousands of dawgs in this world that have not been FF'd and have eagerly picked up several thousand birds in thier retrieving life.
    That said-
    Pressure Conditioning, (FF'), goes waaay beyond a hand delivery or retrieving in general..In other words it does not instill retrieving "desires" in a dog.
    It's about what your goals are that you have for your dog in "the end".

    My answer to your question would be that not all dogs have to be FF'd and not all dogs make good FF' candidates.
    Will say too, that FF' brings a lot of attributes to the table.. (no pun intended)
    Last edited by Swampbilly; 04-05-2014 at 08:09 AM.
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

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    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    If you decide to FF, get some help with someone who has done FF!IMO
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  5. #5

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    well said swampbilly there are certain attributes your dog will not have if not properly force ff. If you never in your life have to correct your dog (as it is an introduction to pressure with a trained and positive response) then maybe you could struggle through the rest of his training. my thoughts are I do not know how you could possibly move forward with training with this giant gap in a young dog. I think it is the base of all retriever training

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    Member Randy Spangler's Avatar
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    Swampbilly is exactly right and to add to that, Force fetch is the transition time for a young dog to move from play to work.
    Everything up to the time that the dog is FF, is something they want to do at that given moment in time. ie sit, pick up and carry a ball, bumper or bird. Thru the FF training you teach a dog to handle pressure when given a command. And how to get out of the pressure by obeying the command. Force fetch is one of the first building blocks in a young dogs advanced training career. After you have successfully finished FF and you move on to other more advanced training, such as stick fetch, collar fetch, 3 handed casting, Yard T Double T, Swim By, etc. the basics for the transition from play to work has been properly instilled. In my opinion, dogs that have not been properly force fetched will usually have issues that show up down the road and are much tougher to work thru than ones that have been FF because you have not built your training program around a solid foundation that you can go back to when things digress. I believe that FF ultimately is very little about picking up and holding an object, but more about learning how to take pressure and then get out of the pressure situation. Play to Work.
    "Like winds on the plains, sands in the glass, waves rolling in with the tide. dreams die hard and we watch them roll but we cannot be denied........The Fire Inside" Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band

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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADB391 View Post
    .....They aren't titled or tested but they hunt like machines......
    Lots of untrained dogs fall into that category. Even some that are extremely obedient.

    Enjoy the journey.
    Considering the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity". -Unknown

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    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Whether or not a dog should go through a FF program depends on the goals of its owner.

    While there are good, hard hunting dogs out there that have never been FF'd and meet their owners needs, it's been my experience that exposure to a really well trained dog that has been through a program will usually change that person's mind. They don't know what they don't know until they've seen the difference.
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    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    I would bet that 50% of the people that have hunting retrievers have never seen a finished dog, couple years back I got invited on a opening weekend duck hunt, there were three other dogs along for the hunt, befor we pulled off the main gravel the other three vehicles all stopped and the dog owners got out and filled there pockets with rocks for blinds, now these were older gentleman and older dogs and these guys have had dogs ever since I can remember, they had never seen a finished dog, didn't know what a blind was and didn't expect the dog to deliver to hand acually encoraged the dog to "drop it" at the shore line, they were just happy they didn't have to put the waders on, they had never heard of FF and didn't see any need for it. They were very OB and steady, they were also happy I was along because there were a few birds that were out of "rocks reach"

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    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Whether or not a dog should go through a FF program depends on the goals of its owner.

    While there are good, hard hunting dogs out there that have never been FF'd and meet their owners needs, it's been my experience that exposure to a really well trained dog that has been through a program will usually change that person's mind. They don't know what they don't know until they've seen the difference.
    Precisely, To the OP, go watch a MH or HRCH titled dog work at a hunt test and then watch the work of an untitled never FF, hunting dog. The difference in the way the dogs work with their owners/handler will be very apparent.
    Jesse

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