The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36

Thread: Mark it yourself!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    S. California
    Posts
    138

    Default Mark it yourself!

    Gage has been a pretty good marker. We are training at Master level. Actually he has proven to be a better marker than I am and therein lies the problem. Even though he marks a fall if I'm not lined up exactly he will take my "line" even though he knows where the bird has dropped. I don't want to handle him to a mark. He doesn't pop and I don't want to get him started so I will walk out to the area of the fall and tell him to "hunt it up". He then goes right to where he knows the bird is.

    As a possible cure I have set up a holding blind that I stay behind and sit him in front of. He is very steady so no problem there. I've given him a number of singles and sent him remotely. That seemed to work. He goes straight to the fall. Also, I have done the "training alone" exercise where I put him in a sit and walk out up to 100+ yards and hand throw marks. He will sit until I send him and retrieve to me where we do it over again. This too seems to be working. He is relying on his own eyes instead of my body position.

    My question is how do we transition back to him regaining confidence in his own marks and not line up on me.

    He has passed three HRC Finished tests (out of four) and has had four great first series in AKC Master (unfortunately in four different tests).

    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

  2. #2
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Brainerd, MN
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    So if the bird is at 12 o'clock and you line him up at 10 o'clock he will take the line to 10 and stay there and hunt, even though you "think" he knows where the bird really is????? If he really is that honest on his lines then I would say you need to work harder as a handler getting him lined up properly, if he goes that straight you should never miss a bird if lined up properly

  3. #3
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    S. California
    Posts
    138

    Default

    You got the idea. He will take that 10 o'clock line and look for a bird. If I could line up properly I wouldn't have posted this. I'm embarrassed to say that we have failed tests because I have handled him to the wrong place. I'm working on it!

    By the way, this started after we worked successfully on "poison birds".
    Last edited by Arnie; 04-08-2014 at 09:15 PM.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

  4. #4
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,245

    Default

    I don't mean to insult you intelligence, but how about working on lining him up right. Like Todd, I'm a little skeptical. A good marker will come back to the line and line himself up looking straight out at the bird. You should only need to line him up if he's lined himself up wrong. So assuming you're correct about your dog being a good marker with good memory, 1) Make mental note of where the bird is, pick out a spot and remember it. 2) Let your dog have his head when he comes back to the line, see if he lines himself up with the mark. 3) If he does, reinforce the good mark, by putting your hand down say "good mark" or "that's it", then send him. 3) If he's off, help him out by lining him up properly, if he still seems vague or keeps looking in the wrong spot, have the gunner step out then retire in-route.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Brainerd, MN
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    I wasn't trying to criticis I was just trying to understand, are these on HT length marks? I can see it on 200+ yard marks if you have a dog that is really good at holding a line if your off a few degrees they could end up way out of the area of the fall but on a 100 yard mark?? Sounds more like he's not confortable going in there to dig out a bird, did he get alot of corrections either going for or picking up a poison bird??

  6. #6
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    S. California
    Posts
    138

    Default

    I'm not sure I explained this clearly. Most times I line up correctly and there is no problem. Unfortunately, all to often, when my judgement is off and he returns to the line he will defer to my alignment rather than his memory.

    I think I created this by training him running blinds between a go bird and a memory bird and with sharp angled poison birds.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

  7. #7
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LV/CenTex/Idaho
    Posts
    12,579

    Default

    Arnie : are you or have you purposely been trying to "line your dog to the marks" or could it be that you may not have shown the dog the difference between your marks and your blinds..Do you drop your hand on a mark like you do on a blind to cue your dog ? if so you might want to stop that practice for now because on the surface the dog seems to rely on the "line" that you create at the mat
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  8. #8
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,021

    Default

    Premise number one is dogs make mistakes because they are out of balance. The dog is now paying too much attention to you. Evidently, the recent poison bird "stuff" has something to do with it (probably not all).

    Consider the five factors of balance - retrieving, "birdiness", control, focus and responsiveness. It is unusual to have a dog that is too responsive. However, you may need to do more "stuff" in training that requires less of your input and control. Again "letting loose" is not the usual solution, but from your posts it kind of fits into your thinking. Problems can often be isolated into "too much of this and/or not enough that".

    Of course (as everyone else mentioned).....your lining skills may need some work. A video camera (behind you) can help immensely.
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 04-08-2014 at 11:05 PM.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    S. California
    Posts
    138

    Default

    I really appreciate the input. He's my first and only hunt test dog and we've come a long way together in less than three years. The more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to learn.

    The remote marks with a holding blind and a couple of yards between us seem to work well. Last Saturday was the first time I tried them. On the first one which was a clear 75 yard mark, when I sent him on his name he looked back at me as if to say "are you sure?". I said his name again and he went right to it. After the first there was no hesitation and he pinned a number of marks of increasing difficulty (distance, cover, suction). Now I have to figure out how to convince him to work out the marks without relying on me when at heel. That is the point to this posting.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

  10. #10
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    LV/CenTex/Idaho
    Posts
    12,579

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
    I really appreciate the input. He's my first and only hunt test dog and we've come a long way together in less than three years. The more I learn the more I realize how much I have yet to learn.

    The remote marks with a holding blind and a couple of yards between us seem to work well. Last Saturday was the first time I tried them. On the first one which was a clear 75 yard mark, when I sent him on his name he looked back at me as if to say "are you sure?". I said his name again and he went right to it. After the first there was no hesitation and he pinned a number of marks of increasing difficulty (distance, cover, suction). Now I have to figure out how to convince him to work out the marks without relying on me when at heel. That is the point to this posting.
    That is what is known as a "Pop"...lots of threads on the RTF about them, but the bottom line is that you want no part of them ....also for now you might want to stop the practice of running a blind in between marks, all it does right now is confuse the dog about the task at hand
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •