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Thread: Mark it yourself!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmm I'd set him up for remote marking and sends; if your not beside him to screw him up, he should go to where he knows the bird is. Bring a nice chair to sit in why he does the work Problem Solved
    That's exactly what I talked about in my earlier posts.

    I just came back from a good training session. Set up multiple (hidden) wingers with falls in knee high cover at ~80+ yards (varied depths). Walked to the line, told him to sit and mark. Did NOT line him up. Started out with a couple of singles and worked up to varied multiples but did not move my feet from the original marks. Left it up to him to keep track of the falls. The only cues he had were quacks from the winger remotes (we can't use primers where we train) before each launch. He did fine with no errors. After each retrieve he looked to the area of the next fall on his own.

    I now realize the problem was my fault. No more cute tricks such as blinds before completing all marked falls. I was teaching him to not rely on his memory.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

  2. #22
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Quit helping him! If it's a mark and he looks to you for direction, cross your arms in front of you and wait him out. Make him responsible. Make sure you give him clear cues to distinguish marks and blinds every single time you send. And I'd stay away from poison bird or between the marks blinds until he has some confidence. Good luck, sounds like a nice dog!
    Carol,
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  3. #23
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    Quit helping him! If it's a mark and he looks to you for direction, cross your arms in front of you and wait him out. Make him responsible. Make sure you give him clear cues to distinguish marks and blinds every single time you send. And I'd stay away from poison bird or between the marks blinds until he has some confidence. Good luck, sounds like a nice dog!
    This. I got a good lesson in this a few weeks back. Don't handle except to keep the dog from switching or going to an old fall - and then it would still be MUCH better if you had your bird thrower help keep him in the area instead of you handling.
    Steve Wyatt

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  4. #24
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    This. I got a good lesson in this a few weeks back. Don't handle except to keep the dog from switching or going to an old fall - and then it would still be MUCH better if you had your bird thrower help keep him in the area instead of you handling.
    OR if your teaching him to fight factors

  5. #25
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    This was your original question.

    "My question is how do we transition back to him regaining confidence in his own marks and not line up on me."

    I dont understand why you would want to teach him NOT to line up on you!!

    Even though its the dogs responsibility to mark a fall,, I firmly believe that the handler has a HUGE responsibility to help the dog as much as possible. You are working as a team. neither one entity is self employed.

    Dont we work hard to teach "Go as sent'?

    As far as not handling on marks.
    How do you teach a dog to run straight, and actually "Go as Sent" if you dont handle?

    If a mark is 250+yards away, but the line to the fall requires the dog to swim a shore line, How do you teach this without handeling to keep the dog off land?

    The Bird Boy is a long way away to be able to help you much.I really dont understand how he could ever be of much help in this situation..

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
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  6. #26
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Maybe its just me. But, I think there will come a time at a test ,for what evr reason, you will have to handle on a mark.
    That Handel better be quick and clean.
    The dog has to be comfortable being handled on marks also!

    If you want to reduce the chance this from happening, (having to handel) then IMHO,, you better take the responsibility as the handler, to line the dog up correctly after the go bird, take your time before you send to let him focus, then send, when you have read the dog has "Got It"..

    Again,,MHO

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    This was your original question.

    "My question is how do we transition back to him regaining confidence in his own marks and not line up on me."

    I dont understand why you would want to teach him NOT to line up on you!!

    Even though its the dogs responsibility to mark a fall,, I firmly believe that the handler has a HUGE responsibility to help the dog as much as possible. You are working as a team. neither one entity is self employed.

    Gooser[/COLOR]
    In A test your absolutely right, you help them as much as you can when it's needed. In training you teach them to be independent and responsible for marks, lining themselves up, knowing where it is, how to find it by themselves and how to get there correctly, etc. So that in a test your help will (hopefully) not be needed .

    A very tractable dog, as the one described here, oftentimes prefers to give up control to the handler; thus the focus of their training must be Independence. Other types of Fire-ball dogs; prefer to do it all themselves thus the focus of their training is usually cooperation.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 04-10-2014 at 01:44 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    In A test your absolutely right, you help them as much as you can when it's needed. In training you teach them to be independent and responsible for marks, lining themselves up, knowing where it is, how to find it by themselves and how to get there correctly, etc. So that in a test your help will (hopefully) not be needed .

    A very tractable dog, as the one described here, oftentimes prefers to give up control to the handler; thus the focus of their training must be Independence. Other types of Fire-ball dogs; prefer to do it all themselves thus the focus of their training is usually cooperation.
    I agree to a point but even in training I want the dog to line up on my body positioning, I don't want him comming back lining up on the bird he wants to pick up next, at a trial or a test I may give in but in training you line up on me and go were sent, now once he lines up on the bird I want next it's up to him to get there unless he's not giving any effort on the line to the mark then we'll handle accordingly..

  9. #29
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I want US to be successful in training too.

    We will not see white on test day, but I as the handler wears it, for the most occation, the gunners wear it.
    I want to make sure dog SEES first.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #30
    Senior Member Arnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    A very tractable dog, as the one described here, oftentimes prefers to give up control to the handler; thus the focus of their training must be Independence. Other types of Fire-ball dogs; prefer to do it all themselves thus the focus of their training is usually cooperation.
    I train with Hunt'EmUP (though not as often as I'd like). She knows that I'm still pretty much a novice and I still get a bit overwhelmed at the line. She also knows that Gage tries very hard to do what I ask of him. This combination can lead to problems such as the one I created and am now working to fix.

    Most times I have to train alone. I thought I could supplement my two wingers by adding a blind or two in between marks to work on his memory. It backfired in that he expected me to send him to all successive falls. If I was off even a little he would pass on the mark and look for another bird. Prior to this he was a good marker with a pretty good memory. For example we had one Master series where we ran last at number 46. It was a land and water triple with a bulldog. One after another dogs were being handled or dropped. Of the 46 only 10 dogs had a clean run. Gage was one of them and I was told he probably had the best run of the day.

    Before I messed up all I had to do was face in the direction of the fall and he would do the rest. I know that I have to get better at the line but I want to get him thinking for himself again as well.
    "If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." ~Rex Carr

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