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Thread: Bugging - what to do

  1. #1
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Default Bugging - what to do

    Hey guys I've noticed that once any pressure is given to my pup on pile work work he seems to anticipate any pressure after the first force. For example when I whistle sit and send him on back he gets antsy and wants to right away take the cast to the pile to remove pressure but because he is antisipating any force he starts to look left or right and cannot get any eye contact with him so I've been playing the waiting game until I get eye contact but this doesnt seem to help much. Also if sending from my side sometimes he will look left and right avoiding to look at the pile. What should I do to get him to give eye contact on both me and the pile?
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    Senior Member rotcsig443's Avatar
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    As far as bugging at your side, you may try going back and revisiting walking fetch. This helps me clear that problem up when it start to kick in with young dogs.

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    Senior Member FOM's Avatar
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    Is your ratio of "force to freebies" good? You should have a lot of freebies...
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    Send him regardless of the bugging. It's pile work he knows the destination

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    Senior Member jrrichar's Avatar
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    I just completed FTP and had something similar occur. FF was a cake walk compared to FTP. I am inexperienced compared to many others on the forum but my 2 cents:

    My dog dealt with pressure from stick fetch just fine. However, moving to the buggy whip for FTP on remote sends (TRT-Lardy) was fraught with problems because I found that it was the unknown that my dog truly had a hard time with (are you using the stick or not). This was not the case when we moved to the e-collar and many skip the whip and go to the collar (back, nick, back).

    With my dog it was jumping up on me (avoidance) and trying to leave early before the command was given (as your dog is doing) on remote sends (turing her back to me increased the unknown factor for some reason) only. I slowed down did tons of freebies with fun tosses and did walking baseball-backs with no force. I also slowed everything down. Made her wait for the command and if she moved simply make her go back and sit (I chose not to nick on the behavior because she was trying to deal with the force, ie it wasn't a lack of effort). Occasionally she still will get antsy in the remote send mode but thankfully she is solid in the side send.

    I also moved on! I learned that staying on FTP too long can be problematic. Get what is needed (a snappy response) and get out!

    On the not looking at the pile, someone more experienced said, who cares send them anyway! Good advice for us, if she goes the wrong way I stop her and make her come back and we run it again. If she still gets it wrong, I move forward towards the pile and send.

    I think we get caught up on all the aspects and on perfecting all of them so we make our dogs a nervous wreck. Do this but not that, etc. Someone else more experienced might chime in on whether I am off on this. Who knows I could be screwing up my dog!
    Last edited by jrrichar; 04-09-2014 at 03:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    The Lardy correction for bugging at your side: step forward say here or heel and nick. Then sit and send. For a real nervous dog I will throw some happy bumpers off to the side periodically.
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    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrrichar View Post
    I just completed FTP and had something similar occur. FF was a cake walk compared to FTP. I am inexperienced compared to many others on the forum but my 2 cents:

    My dog dealt with pressure from stick fetch just fine. However, moving to the buggy whip for FTP on remote sends (TRT-Lardy) was fraught with problems because I found that it was the unknown that my dog truly had a hard time with (are you using the stick or not). This was not the case when we moved to the e-collar and many skip the whip and go to the collar (back, nick, back).

    With my dog it was jumping up on me (avoidance) and trying to leave early before the command was given (as your dog is doing) on remote sends (turing her back to me increased the unknown factor for some reason) only. I slowed down did tons of freebies with fun tosses and did walking baseball-backs with no force. I also slowed everything down. Made her wait for the command and if she moved simply make her go back and sit (I chose not to nick on the behavior because she was trying to deal with the force, ie it wasn't a lack of effort). Occasionally she still will get antsy in the remote send mode but thankfully she is solid in the side send.

    I also moved on! I learned that staying on FTP too long can be problematic. Get what is needed (a snappy response) and get out!

    On the not looking at the pile, someone more experienced said, who cares send them anyway! Good advice for us, if she goes the wrong way I stop her and make her come back and we run it again. If she still gets it wrong, I move forward towards the pile and send.

    I think we get caught up on all the aspects and on perfecting all of them so we make our dogs a nervous wreck. Do this but not that, etc. Someone else more experienced might chime in on whether I am off on this. Who knows I could be screwing up my dog!
    Unfortunately by moving on from bugging and avoiding pressure because of the bugging , you may have taught her avoidance behavior stops the pressure. FTP is about teaching the dog how to DEAL with pressure not how to avoid it
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by FPA Ammo View Post
    Hey guys I've noticed that once any pressure is given to my pup on pile work work he seems to anticipate any pressure after the first force. For example when I whistle sit and send him on back he gets antsy and wants to right away take the cast to the pile to remove pressure but because he is antisipating any force he starts to look left or right and cannot get any eye contact with him so I've been playing the waiting game until I get eye contact but this doesnt seem to help much. Also if sending from my side sometimes he will look left and right avoiding to look at the pile. What should I do to get him to give eye contact on both me and the pile?
    Bugging 9 times out of 10 is a direct response to too much pressure.....pressure can be from either or a combination of the following, e-collar, stick and or your daily routine ( doing the same thing day after day after day ).
    solution.... change up your routine 1st and take a short break from casting work...do more o/b work as well as marking then after a couple days to a week return to casting work and include the following........ make sure you are giving lots of freebies during your session, you should really only need to force 4 to 5 times in one session..... stop forcing immediately following your cast in the front sit position force more in-route ( this will help with eye contact with you in whistle sits ) ..........switch up from side sends and front finishes sends in the same session.....mark you pile as often as needed.....

  9. #9
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOM View Post
    Is your ratio of "force to freebies" good? You should have a lot of freebies...
    on force to pile what is a good ratio I have kept the force of 4 to 5 time out of 15 - 20 sends. Based on what i am reading here it may be to many?
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  10. #10
    Senior Member FPA Ammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Nutt View Post
    The Lardy correction for bugging at your side: step forward say here or heel and nick. Then sit and send. For a real nervous dog I will throw some happy bumpers off to the side periodically.
    Wayne I am following Lary and re-watched the video and did see this in the video. I will re-visit this idea.

    Edit: He is not a nervous and very confident dog. He does works very well through pressure.
    Last edited by FPA Ammo; 04-10-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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