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Thread: New Category of Owner Handler Amateur for FT Being Discussed

  1. #81
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles C. View Post
    Who decides if there is "sufficient interest"? This stuff can't make it to a vote, but the ridiculous layout blind vote made it down to the clubs?

    There was a concern about liability. Some bird boys had gotten kicked by dogs. Others were kept in them too long in the heat. The issue came up. It came up for a vote. Ed, Robbie, I and others fought for the use of layout blinds. The issue was submitted to the clubs for a vote. We lost.
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  2. #82
    Senior Member Charles C.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    There was a concern about liability. Some bird boys had gotten kicked by dogs. Others were kept in them too long in the heat. The issue came up. It came up for a vote. Ed, Robbie, I and others fought for the use of layout blinds. The issue was submitted to the clubs for a vote. We lost.
    I understand the arguments against layout blinds, I just thought it amounted to legislating common sense. I know in the club I belong to, lots of people who have little involvement in field trials and don't judge were part of the vote. Despite my vote against the measure and arguments for their use, our vote was to ban the blinds. It's unfortunate.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I think it is important to remember the clubs have a say in the process. For example, the requirements for judging that so many on RTF criticize was put up for a vote and passed. Many measures are ignored by clubs who elect not to vote. If you don't participate in the process, I don't think you have any right to complain
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  4. #84
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
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    I didn't know about the layout blind rule till reading this post. Having spent a very long and hot August day laying in one that was positioned at the bottom of a dry ditch abou 8 FT. Deep I'm glad they outlawed them. I liked to got a heat stroke from that gun station.
    I think they were all made to shoot because if they were not why did they give them that whirr of wings that moves you suddenly more than any love of country . . . I think that they were made to shoot and some of us were made to shoot them and if that is not so well, never say we did not tell you that we liked it.

    E. Hemingway

  5. #85
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    I understand the arguments against layout blinds, I just thought it amounted to legislating common sense. I know in the club I belong to, lots of people who have little involvement in field trials and don't judge were part of the vote. Despite my vote against the measure and arguments for their use, our vote was to ban the blinds. It's unfortunate.
    The highlighted and underlined part of your responce is the problem, very little of that left nowdays, for the folks that were in favor I would urge them to set up a layout blind in there front yard, in the sun because the whole point of them was to use them in situations were there was no other way to retire a gun, about every 10 min. get up and toss a bumper, get back in and repeat, do this for 4 hours and report back. At some point someone would have been left out there to long and gotten hurt...

  6. #86
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    I have retired into a layout blind both in training and field trials, not all layouts are the same, there are mesh ones which provide ventilation for the person in the blind. Also outlawed was the practice of lying on the ground to retire under any type of concealment. I often do this in training sometimes concealing myself under a ghillie blanket. Like most things if we consider the extreme almost anything would be unacceptable. As I argued at the time if we are concerned about bird thrower safety we should first address popper guns and lack of hearing and eye protection.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    I have retired into a layout blind both in training and field trials, not all layouts are the same, there are mesh ones which provide ventilation for the person in the blind. Also outlawed was the practice of lying on the ground to retire under any type of concealment. I often do this in training sometimes concealing myself under a ghillie blanket. Like most things if we consider the extreme almost anything would be unacceptable. As I argued at the time if we are concerned about bird thrower safety we should first address popper guns and lack of hearing and eye protection.
    I hear ya, Iv'e spent many days in a layout blind, have 5 different ones hanging in my garage, if you or me are out in a layout blind at a trial we have enough scence to call on the radio and say Iv'e had enough I need to get out of here now, problem is a 12 year old kid may not, he may just be trying to do a really good job, toughs it out and gets sick, it's not going to be the judges that the parents chew out it's going to be the club. The rule probably should have been adults only in layouts.

  8. #88
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    I hear ya, Iv'e spent many days in a layout blind, have 5 different ones hanging in my garage, if you or me are out in a layout blind at a trial we have enough scence to call on the radio and say Iv'e had enough I need to get out of here now, problem is a 12 year old kid may not, he may just be trying to do a really good job, toughs it out and gets sick, it's not going to be the judges that the parents chew out it's going to be the club. The rule probably should have been adults only in layouts.
    Can't have any 12 year old kids working at a trial in the first place. (At least with popper guns involved)
    Last edited by huntinman; 04-17-2014 at 08:54 AM.
    Bill Davis

  9. #89
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perry_rm View Post
    Why would a pro want to run their dog in the am stakes. This whole thing stinks to me. I'm new to the whole thing. Just got my first lab and I am interested in training her and getting her titled. I also plan to hunt the heck out of her. After reading this discussion it makes me sick of the whole idea. It just seems like some sort of racket. Pros running their dogs in am stakes to get titles. Am' running their dogs that were trained by pros. And this crap about clubs going out of business if they don't support the racket.


    It seems pretty simple simple to me. If your dog was trained by a pro it is a pro. Therefore compete with the pros and stay out of the Am's. Why cry about. If you want to be an AM then put in the work yourself and be one.

    I may be reading to much into this but it seems to me this has nothing to do with logic and a whole lot to do with people making money. Anyways, like I said I am new to this and welcome anyone to set me straight if I am wrong on this assumption.
    This is just crazy
    But I suspect your opinion will change. You really don't have enough time or experiences in the game to make these statements. And Pro's are not trying to run the Am. And who cares, I've seen many "all pro" trained dogs with FC's barely able to get a Jam in the Am due to the handler. What about the guy that pays a pro, trains with the pro three days a week for years, has a hand in the training, learning everything they can from FF to bird placement, and how to be a better handler. Can he run your Am?

  10. #90
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Gun safety
    I think some folks, especially a 16 yr olds, are unaware that a Popper Load can blow off part of your foot or hurt someone pretty bad.
    Another thing people aren't always aware of, especially if you have two at a station one shooting, is not to freekin' Sweep someone with the barrel of a shotgun, ever. Happens all the time. I had a flyer gunner sweep me while I was throwing. Didn't like that very much.
    High on judge/chairman list should be gunner/birdboy instruction/training.
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    Per favore, non mi rompere i coglioni.
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