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Thread: How do you handle this in training? Trial?

  1. #11
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    As I see it , I would not spend to much time on the second point. It might condition the dog to beach early. Depending on where the dog is, I might do each point separate and then move back.

    Keith

  2. #12
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    How about in training run it the opposite from what the dog would like to do, if the dog wants to get on the point make him swim past it, if the dog want to swim past it make him get on it...

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    If very young dog teach first. Start at second point. Challenge the line. Move back to first point and then back to start. KISS method Site blind like Bon says is helpful. IMO
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  4. #14
    Senior Member 8mmag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    How about in training run it the opposite from what the dog would like to do, if the dog wants to get on the point make him swim past it, if the dog want to swim past it make him get on it...
    ^^^^THIS^^^^^ is what everyone keeps trying to drill into me...
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    How about in training run it the opposite from what the dog would like to do, if the dog wants to get on the point make him swim past it, if the dog want to swim past it make him get on it...
    How does this work? If in this scenario you are supposed to get on the point? I guess I don't understand what you mean or how it will help?
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    How does this work? If in this scenario you are supposed to get on the point? I guess I don't understand what you mean or how it will help?
    But the dog doesn't know how it is supposed to be run. I think Todd is just working on changing the dog's mind and getting it to do the opposite of what it wants to do.

    Depending on where your dog is in training, you might want to scent one of the points. You might also consider shooting a flyer out to the left onto the ground somewhere between points & run as a poison bird.
    Last edited by Buzz; 04-16-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    How does this work? If in this scenario you are supposed to get on the point? I guess I don't understand what you mean or how it will help?
    Not at a trial or a test , just in training, just because the line to blind is over both points doesn't mean you have to run it that way(in Training), let the dog decide how your going to run it, if the dog is looking like he is going to swim past the first point and then cuts hard left thinking he is going to get on, stop and cast away from the point making him swim past it, same thing if the dog is being a good dog looking like he may just slide past the point and all of a sudden starts to go way wide, avioding the point stop and cast onto the point.
    Last edited by Todd Caswell; 04-16-2014 at 07:31 PM.

  8. #18
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    Thanks for the info. I'm caught between an old dog that I give literal cast 100% of the time in training and then give the cast I know will get the job done in test/trial and 2 young ones that are learning and was trying to determine if I was doing it right by giving the literals to them and using attrition to get the desired cast. The wind was blowing from behind and slight right to left at about 12mph when I ran this. I think the opposite blind will be much more challenging with the opposite wind but still blowing into the shoreline (want try that with the young ones for a while.)

    On the young dogs both gave great initial lines with one getting to the first point and the other having to be put on the point. Both got off the first point in pretty good shape with the same one going out to sea again and had to be put on the second point. The second point is where I had to recall twice on both to get the cast I wanted (both over rotated on the right hand back) I feel that both would have given the desired cast if I had given less of an angle back right with a step.

  9. #19
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    I noticed you said you used attrition on the second point due to over rotating. This is an area I think you have to be careful in thoughts of attrition. Did you stop them on the land or in the water? Pressure and not attrition would probably be more appropriate, but I am making a few assumptions with that statement. If you caught them still on the point, then pressure would be appropriate. If they made it to the water, calling them back, due to them being out of sight is not always a good deal either. I would prefer a dog, that learns not to get sucked in behind points, and if they do swims out to find me, rather than returning to a point. But, with young dogs, you can't burn them out from behind a point. So, I would require them to come off of the point fat, that can be obtained by giving a small straight up cast, if the dog, turns and takes a straight back, stop them burn repeat the same challenging cast. Only use attrition to get the dog in a good position to come off the point correctly, a recall here would be accompanied with a burn. I would shy from literal casting and lean towards a challenging cast. That is how you get a dog thinking water.
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  10. #20
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    I would like to run it from the B to the L after mastering it the way you have shown. Much tougher re-entry. Good training.

    John

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