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Thread: Biggest Labrador Show in North America / Potomac

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    To the non-show people: Many show labs have a decent length of leg and are more moderate than those specialty winners (which are the same that go to Westminster). Specialties, tend to have "breeder judges" as opposed to all breed judges and breeder judges tend to be those that show/win a lot so they go with their preference which is the overdone, short legged, short-muzzled type. I went to that Potomac show once a few years back since our CBR National show was being held at the site; the Labs happened to be showing the day I went. Having shown my own CBR, I'd seen Labs in the rings at the all breed shows and seen many of the more moderate dogs put up so I wasn't prepared for seeing all those overdone kegs on legs in one place. In fact when I got there, I was surprised to see people moussing and sculpting their dogs' coats into Chessy-like waves! One exhibitor was happy to point out a dog that she swore had part of its tail amputated so it would be shorter and thicker! It is possible, but probably not easy, to finish a moderate dog without showing it at specialties, because of how many dogs you need to defeat to earn enough points for majors (you need 2 majors, which are determined by dog numbers) among the 15 points to earn the CH title. Those numbers mean you pretty much have to go to specialties to get the points. And that is hard for a moderate looking dogs because the specialties are the ones with breeder judges that put up what they like. And from what I saw, it's not the moderate ones that actually look as if they might not sink in the water.
    I have NEVER heard of of seen someone putting mousse on a show labs coat. That is just plain ridiculous. Half of them don't even get baths before a show. At all breed shows, stewards say the judges hate to judge the labs because they think they are "dirty". So, I would love to know where you saw mousse applied. I would also like to know when a Chessie show was held on the grounds of the Potomac show. I go to Potomac every year and have NEVER seen that happen. I have also NEVER heard o a lab's tail being amputated. It would actually make the dog ineligible to compete. They are not allowed to be altered through surgery in any way. Also, lab entries at all breed shows are plenty big enough to get your majors. I went to an all breed show 2 weekends ago and there was a labrador entry of 72. No problem getting majors at the all breeds! I just wish that more of the info that I read on this forum was accurate!

  2. #92
    Senior Member Jeffrey Towler's Avatar
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    I have a question brought on by a comment I read on this thread. It was mentioned that dogs meant to be shown in the speciality class are "overdone". What is different about these labs as opposed to regular show labs?

    I am a complete novice when it comes to showing labs, mine are from what I have been told whippets.


    JT

  3. #93
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    ::::raising hand::::

    I have a question.

    Has anyone here ever heard a strictly show breeder say that they breed for the extreme rather than moderation? It seems every one I've heard/talked to claims moderation.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  4. #94

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    Mousse... I have known people to do it. If you have a dog with too soft a coat - mousse them and it hardens up the coat. Not something I would care to do because you are misrepresenting your dog. I just give them a bath about a week before the show or brush off the mud before we go into the ring. I do spray on a mixture of Listerine and water to get a better sheen on my dogs coat. (I do prefer field but since I do have a couple pretty dogs I might as well show them). I have seen people mousse the tail as well to get it to look fuller. You can buy shampoo that makes the coat more wiry, black stuff made specifically to put on your dogs nose if your dog has dudley nose. All kinds of things... I have a friend who spent hours getting his golden ready for the ring and had all kinds of different colored powders to highlight her face. Kind of interesting... A whole different world. He even took a class on how to trim your dog to hide faults. A whole different world.
    Julie (High Voltage Retrievers) Life is to short to hunt with an ugly dog. Hunting is more fun with a good dog no matter how ugly it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey Towler View Post
    I have a question brought on by a comment I read on this thread. It was mentioned that dogs meant to be shown in the speciality class are "overdone". What is different about these labs as opposed to regular show labs?

    I am a complete novice when it comes to showing labs, mine are from what I have been told whippets.


    JT
    I disagree that dogs meant for the specialty classes are overdone. As I said before, the same dogs show in all breed shows and specialties. I show in both as well. There is a HUGE variation in labs of all kinds. You can see this at any show. Some are really big (overdone). And if you look at all the dogs from these breeders, they are all that way. It is that breeder's preference. But I believe that is the exception, not the rule in show dogs. It is easy to grab a few examples of show labs that are too big and then criticize the whole lot, but there are plenty of very athletic show labs. It is really a matter of people's preferences that causes the differences. I like the English lab look better than the American lab look, but I had someone come to see a puppy over the summer that brought their American lab with them and he was drop dead gorgeous. So, I really try not to generalize about one group or the other. It is really all breeder specific, and we all have our own idea about what looks or functions best. I think show breeders need to make sure they breed dogs that can spend a day out in the field, but I believe that most can.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    ::::raising hand::::

    I have a question.

    Has anyone here ever heard a strictly show breeder say that they breed for the extreme rather than moderation? It seems every one I've heard/talked to claims moderation.
    No, those breeders probably like what they are breeding and see it as "correct", or they would not be breeding it. Can't say I have ever heard a field breeder say that they breed for the thinnest build or head they can. What's your point?

  7. #97
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labbie_lover View Post
    I have NEVER heard of of seen someone putting mousse on a show labs coat. That is just plain ridiculous. Half of them don't even get baths before a show. At all breed shows, stewards say the judges hate to judge the labs because they think they are "dirty". So, I would love to know where you saw mousse applied. I would also like to know when a Chessie show was held on the grounds of the Potomac show. I go to Potomac every year and have NEVER seen that happen. I have also NEVER heard o a lab's tail being amputated. It would actually make the dog ineligible to compete. They are not allowed to be altered through surgery in any way. Also, lab entries at all breed shows are plenty big enough to get your majors. I went to an all breed show 2 weekends ago and there was a labrador entry of 72. No problem getting majors at the all breeds! I just wish that more of the info that I read on this forum was accurate!
    Please remember that your experience doesn't speak for the whole world...it just speaks to what you have personally experienced. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    I have personally had my hands on three show Labs that had very blunt ends to their tails rather than a taper...and all three were missing the very tip of their tails (maybe an inch). The scar tissue was obvious when I looked through the hair. It happens when people confuse an otter tail...meaning wide at the base and tapering to the tip....with a blunted, thick club.

    I have seen moussed Labs as well, again with the tail thing being primary. Make that hair stand out so it looks even thicker. While it may not be common/everybody doing it, it is done.

    And not every show is going to have huge Lab entries....making a major is not always easy. Different areas of the country can vary widely as to entries.

    I read Julie's post as saying she went to the Potomac show because the Chessie specialty was going to be held on those grounds. Sounds like she just wanted to see the show grounds prior to attending the specialty.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPEED View Post
    Mousse... I have known people to do it. If you have a dog with too soft a coat - mousse them and it hardens up the coat. Not something I would care to do because you are misrepresenting your dog. I just give them a bath about a week before the show or brush off the mud before we go into the ring. I do spray on a mixture of Listerine and water to get a better sheen on my dogs coat. (I do prefer field but since I do have a couple pretty dogs I might as well show them). I have seen people mousse the tail as well to get it to look fuller. You can buy shampoo that makes the coat more wiry, black stuff made specifically to put on your dogs nose if your dog has dudley nose. All kinds of things... I have a friend who spent hours getting his golden ready for the ring and had all kinds of different colored powders to highlight her face. Kind of interesting... A whole different world. He even took a class on how to trim your dog to hide faults. A whole different world.
    I know there are tons of powders, etc used on other breeds. I've watched other breeds grooming their dogs at the shows, but I have certainly never done any type of special grooming for a show. I do bathe mine because we live on a farm and they get dirty, but other than that no "product", and they have a beautiful sheen. People have asked me what I use to make my black dogs shine, but I swear I don't use a thing on their coats. I wash them with Spectrum One Shampoo made for course coats / double coats, but use nothing else. Don't even brush them unless they are shedding.

    BTW, I am familar with your dogs and even considered breeding to Chase back in the day. I was very sad to hear when he passed. That similar pedigree is still very prevalent in the show ring for chocolates. Great examples of dogs that can do it all. I applaud your contributions to the breed!

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    Please remember that your experience doesn't speak for the whole world...it just speaks to what you have personally experienced. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    I have personally had my hands on three show Labs that had very blunt ends to their tails rather than a taper...and all three were missing the very tip of their tails (maybe an inch). The scar tissue was obvious when I looked through the hair. It happens when people confuse an otter tail...meaning wide at the base and tapering to the tip....with a blunted, thick club.

    I have seen moussed Labs as well, again with the tail thing being primary. Make that hair stand out so it looks even thicker. While it may not be common/everybody doing it, it is done.

    And not every show is going to have huge Lab entries....making a major is not always easy. Different areas of the country can vary widely as to entries.

    I read Julie's post as saying she went to the Potomac show because the Chessie specialty was going to be held on those grounds. Sounds like she just wanted to see the show grounds prior to attending the specialty.
    It just seems odd to me that the people on this forum who proclaim their dislike of the show labs seem to see more stuff going on in the show ring than I do when I am at a show almost EVERY weekend. You are right, I am certainly not at EVERY show in the world, but I dare to say I am at more of them than you are, and that I interact with more show breeders than you do, so I can't understand why you see all this stuff going on, and show breeders amputating ends of tails, when I never have. Actually, a breeder seminar was given at Potomac this year and the presenter said that someone new working for her cut off the swizzles (end pieces of hair on the tail), and that she threw an absolute fit and he never made that mistake again. Doesn't sound like people that would amputate an actual part of the tail when they get that upset over cuting off a tiny bit of hair. When I first started out, a dog groomer "helping" me learn to show, cut off a little unruly piece of hair and when I told a more experienced lab breeder/handler about it, she told me to NEVER cut a lab's coat. She said taking scissors to a lab's coat is a sin. I have heard that so many times over the years. So do these same people cut off parts of tails - and I have NEVER seen it? Just doesn't seem very believeable to me.

  10. #100
    Senior Member cakaiser's Avatar
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    Uh huh. Well, Sharon and Julie are on here a lot. Never thought either one of them to be a...liar.
    You really are digging yourself a big hole. Stop now.
    Charlotte Kaiser: " The Problem Lies In The Talent."

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