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Thread: Letter of suggestions concerning Limited Entries.

  1. #1
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    Default Letter of suggestions concerning Limited Entries.

    A letter concerning our suggestions for Limited Entries is posted on my Facebook page at Castile Creek Kennels. This letter was sent to Mr. Bill Teague.

    The letter was written by Jack Morris, Ray Shanks, Doug Shade and myself.

    Thank you for your time.

    Lyle
    Castile Creek Kennels www.castilecreekkennels.com

    Join us on Facebook at Castile Creek Kennel for daily updates.

    Email address: Llsteinman@gmail.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Handler Error's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle Steinman View Post
    A letter concerning our suggestions for Limited Entries is posted on my Facebook page at Castile Creek Kennels. This letter was sent to Mr. Bill Teague.

    The letter was written by Jack Morris, Ray Shanks, Doug Shade and myself.

    Thank you for your time.

    Lyle
    I am not on Facebook and would like to read it. Since you authored the letter, can you copy and paste it here?

  3. #3
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Excellent suggestions. I went to your personal fb before I realized it was on your kennel fb page.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  4. #4
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    I think the mileage limitations will help a lot. Our club didn't even have a spring test this year because we could not get a date that worked for us because of some tests that are right at 200 miles and hardly anyone that enters those don't enter ours anyway. Our club is also limited because the land we lease is also farmed and we only have a short window to avoid having problems with crop planting in the spring. No mileage will free us up to have the test at the best time. I know this is only our issue but it will also help with entries I believe.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handler Error View Post
    I am not on Facebook and would like to read it. Since you authored the letter, can you copy and paste it here?
    You don't have to have a FB account to view it. Here is a link:

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Casti...s/301931297749

    This is the letter we sent.

    RE: Suggestions for the limited entries problem.

    1) Reduce the miles for Non-Compete clause. Let test compete with each other for entries. That has been very effective for field trials.

    2) 75 Dog limit minimum (from 60) allowing a Club to also limit Seniors & Juniors. This will protect them from having spilt to Senior & Juniors.

    3) Allow clubs to also limit the Seniors & Juniors, this will allow a club to use higher limits on Master stakes.

    4) Allow a Club to host a 3 rd event each year. Currently clubs can offer a Junior and Senior event only. Allow this 3 d event to be a Master only or a combination of Master and/or Junior & Seniors.

    5) Require Entry Express to post date & time that a test will open up (at least two weeks prior to the closing date. (No MIDNIGHT openings). Suggest all events limited or not, have a standardized opening time of 7:00 PM in the time zone the event is being held. Also ask that openings be no more than 30 days in advance.

    6) Allow clubs that have opened and filled up to add additional test or flights before the closing.

    7) Ask Entry Express to continue accepting entries after an event is filled for the purpose of creating a secondary list. This list will be used to auto-fill any scratches that may occur and will become the first entries accepted should a club decide to add another flight.

    8) Ask Club and Entry Express to move closing time to Noon, 1 PM or 2 PM. (To make sure Entry Express is open to make scratches so other people can enter).

    9) Ask Club to include on application the past three years numbers. (ie: 2010: Masters (197); Seniors (49); and Juniors (35); 2011: Masters (157); Seniors (45); and Juniors (36). 2012: Masters (187); Seniors (35); and Juniors (39).

    10) Require the club provide a short description of the land and water they have available for their event. This may include acreage and type and number of ponds available. If club is asking for a limited entry on their application, define limitations. i.e: available acreage, lack of suitable water, lack of help, etc.

    11) Any Doubleheader Master’s may NOT start on the same day.

    12) Clubs that choose to limit entries. The mileage compete will be taken away. Also required to pay the AKC per dog rate as follows. 60 Dog Limit will be $ 18.00 Per dog. 120 Dog Limit $ 9.00 Per dog. 180 Dog limit will $ 6.00 Per Dog. 240 Dog limit $ 4.50 Per Dog. No limit (as it is now) $ 3.50.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Lyle Steinman
    Jack Morris
    Ray Shanks
    Doug Shade
    Proud members of The Professional Retriever Training Association

    SHR Turtlecreek's This 'Ol Cowboy - Tucker
    HRCH Oak Point's Traveling Man - Mason

  6. #6
    Senior Member Eric Fryer's Avatar
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    Some good suggestions, some questionable ones. The fee schedule is ridiculous! You want to punish clubs that for one reason of another have to limit entries. $18 per dog times 60 dogs.... $1080 fee to the AKC because we have to limit our test? Sorry that is idiotic! If we had an extra $1000 maybe each club could lease more land, hire more help etc.

    Perhaps a more logical solution resides with the Pros. Limit the amount of dogs you can enter per test. Or we can alter the fee schedule as an example: the first six dogs on your truck entered pay the normal entry fee, after that tack on an additional $50 per dog for the next 6, then anything over 12 dogs entered is an additional $100. I guess is what I am trying to say is this, why punish the clubs and volunteers so a big name pro can make his living? We are the ones volunteering so you can make a living, I don't have a problem with that at all. Everyone needs to eat, and if you can make a living in the outdoors out of an office doing what you love great. But damn kill the club that wants to hold a test, get a freaking clue.... you are biting the hand that feeds and it is eventually going to hurt.

    EDIT***
    I am not seriously proposing the fee schedule above used it mainly as an illustration. Like I said a lot of the ideas aren't bad, I hope you can tell how I feel about the fees though.
    Last edited by Eric Fryer; 04-20-2014 at 09:51 AM.
    God, Family, Country & LSU Football.

  7. #7
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Fryer View Post
    Some good suggestions, some questionable ones. The fee schedule is ridiculous! You want to punish clubs that for one reason of another have to limit entries. $18 per dog times 60 dogs.... $1080 fee to the AKC because we have to limit our test? Sorry that is idiotic! If we had an extra $1000 maybe each club could lease more land, hire more help etc.

    Perhaps a more logical solution resides with the Pros. Limit the amount of dogs you can enter per test. Or we can alter the fee schedule as an example: the first six dogs on your truck entered pay the normal entry fee, after that tack on an additional $50 per dog for the next 6, then anything over 12 dogs entered is an additional $100. I guess is what I am trying to say is this, why punish the clubs and volunteers so a big name pro can make his living? We are the ones volunteering so you can make a living, I don't have a problem with that at all. Everyone needs to eat, and if you can make a living in the outdoors out of an office doing what you love great. But damn kill the club that wants to hold a test, get a freaking clue.... you are biting the hand that feeds and it is eventually going to hurt.
    I agree, don't punish the club for being successful. I have a similar problem with your suggestion regarding pros, you act as if it only hurts the pro. The reality in most cases is that the pro is the surrogate handler for many owners, who for one reason or another can't attend that hunt test. Your proposal would put each pro in a very awkward position of having to choose which owner to piss off each weekend. I know I would be very upset if my dog was on a pro truck for a winter circuit, and my dog had to sit on the truck all weekend while my pro ran other dogs.

  8. #8
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    The last senior test I ran had 24 entries and 4 of those were scratched. The last junior had 22. Last year those same two tests had over double that in them. Why would you want to limit the amount of entries in those events? Seems to me that you are going to take away any incentive for a beginning trainer like me to enter a hunt test, or get any experience running in one. Understand we are not all pros, and have to start somewhere. I know I'm not ready to run either of my dogs in a master level event. What I'm seeing is less entries in these level tests means that people like myself are giving up on the sport, or waiting for their dog and themselves to be trained well enough to enter a master. Where did you start?
    Last edited by fishin444; 04-20-2014 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Eric Fryer's Avatar
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    John.... I edited my post. I honestly feel the way you do sorry for the confusion
    God, Family, Country & LSU Football.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mike Peters-labguy23's Avatar
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    I don't understand the logic in the fee schedules. Some clubs have limited land and can only put on a smaller test. In turn what would happen is you would end up with less tests! I know our club lost land after our last double master and now we can not offer it until we find more available land.

    The HT Pro's will suffer if more clubs decide opt out of the Master National Club. If our club wanted to really limit our numbers we would do just that, drop out of the Master National Club.
    Mike Peters

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