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Thread: Letter of suggestions concerning Limited Entries.

  1. #31
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    For # 30 and to address your question about
    Judges.
    My first thought is there are adequate numbers of judges however likely there has been no study on the numbers. An average ht would need about 10 judges and if there are 5 events around the nation thats 50 judges and if this goes on 40 weeks that is 2000 judges if all judged one time.

    Ht are hard to judge and difficult to be a judge.
    Take a test, then a seminar then enter and be successful twice , next apprentice and finally judge then repeat. My opinion is the consistency in judging is rising. Then with all that there are several rules and standards to apply
    No wonder the sport is growing just due to the structure.

    Now for acquiring judges my solution for our club is simple. Our tests are fairly early in the spring so we get folks from the North. Some are down here already, others ready for a weekend where the grass is growing. Its really too early for them to be out training in earnest. Our cold is laughable at times, this spring i was bundled up with jacket,gloves and a hat and one of the guys from up yonder had shorts on. He was shocked and laughed at me.

    Our sport is discretionary income so lets enjoy it, make it fun and recall why we are doing this. It may have started out as something to do between hunting seasons but it is different today. Families are running around, kids playing, junior handlers, Nationals to attend and dog friends spread across the Nation.
    Someone said " enjoy the ride"
    Dk

  2. #32
    Senior Member Steve Shaver's Avatar
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    Want to enter a master test when yours is full come to UT. HT and DQ next weekend 38 Qual dogs 37 Master dogs entries closed last Monday. Another HT DQ the following weekend closes today and the entries as of now stand at 19 qual dogs and 17 Masters. Well on second thought don't come to UT I like it the way it is.
    Lots of complaints about Masters filling up quick and occasionally we hear that FT need new blood. Well my response to that is (and I'm sure some or a lot will think Im out in left field) is do away with the Master National. All it does is keep people chasing Master passes and keeps them from trying to jump to the next level and try the qual. I couldn't imagine going and running the MN with 800 or 900 dogs qualified, no thanks! Again on second thought I like things as is just fine, plenty of qual dogs and plenty of Master dogs.

  3. #33
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    Got it #32 and you have a good point.

    Consider though- the ht dogs are better, handlers better and the training better
    The program has good dogs! Should you desire to breed your dog will you go to an MH with 6 passes or say a dog with 50 passes and MNH x5. My belief says its the consistency of achievement however the animal with just 6 passes may be just as good but since the dog may only be known to a small circle that bloodline wont be shared as much.

    We do enjoy the events and we do campaign the dogs. Hustle , gone now 3 years had like 94 AkC passes and 20+ Ckc passes at the Master level plus an MNHx5 and an NMH x4. Now i am not saying he was one bit better than a dog with 6 passes however you do know Hustle was consistent.
    Is that not one of the attributes we look for?
    Just saying

    In Canada the master tests always have about 20 dogs and they are fun and relaxed. Your events with lower numbers would be fun and I envy that to a degree.
    Although it is nice also when 500 dogs show up and its a zoo and you better have your act together with a nice crew to help. Consider coming to Alabama one spring and join in the crazy. Its not like that film - Deliverance at all.
    Dk

  4. #34
    Senior Member Keith Stroyan's Avatar
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    Stunning letter.

    My first reaction was to withdraw my offer to help with our test next month.

    We're a small club and just joined the master national. We will struggle to handle 60 master dogs already entered. I don't run AKC/HTs and I believe we have only 4 member dogs running master.

    And in addition to my working two 12 hour days, we should pay a $1000 fine for not accommodating more entries?
    Last edited by Keith Stroyan; 04-21-2014 at 12:32 PM.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Splash_em's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Stroyan View Post
    Stunning letter.

    My first reaction was to withdraw my offer to help with our test next month.

    We're a small club and just joined the master national. We will struggle to handle 60 master dogs already entered. I don't run AKC/HTs and I believe we have only 4 member dogs running master.

    And in addition to my working two 12 hour days, we should pay a $1000 fine for not accommodating more entries?
    My sentiments exactly. If a proposal that idiotic even makes it out to the club delegates for a vote, my outlook on this whole thing will be greatly tarnished.

    I've got better ways to spend vacation days than being on test grounds from Friday through Sunday.
    Richard Gravely

  6. #36

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    Thank you Lyle and your group for much needed dialog. Your letter deserves a point by point look. Here are some comments:

    # 1. (Reduce non-compete mileage). Good. More competition between events addresses a LOT of issues. On the field trial side this is contingent on last year's entry size of the adjacent event and to prevent starving a struggling event into non existence maybe something similar should apply to reducing hunt test non-compete mileage.

    # 2. (75 limit instead of 60.) Not feasible especially when days are shorter. If 75 is an allowable limit it needs to be club option. Let the guys who know the local conditions make this call.

    #3. (Junior & Senior limits.) Good idea as long as it is club option.

    #4. (Allow 3rd event a year, Master-only or combo Master and one Jr or sr.) Excellent idea. If a club wants to do the work to hold an extra event why on earth tell them they can't.

    # 5. (Required posting of opening date/time, which shall be not more than 30 days [before something--event or closing??] or less than 14 days before closing.) Requiring advance posting of opening date/time is a good idea ONLY if Additional Suggestion A, below, is also used. Otherwise this requirement destroys a club's ability to give a heads up to club member workers so they can be sure to get their dog in the test. If they are going to be working all weekend that is only fair and common sense for the survival of events. There is no good reason for a "not earlier than" limit on opening.

    # 6. (Allow more flights be added after filling.) Already allowed, I think. We have had one club do this here this year under the existing rules.

    # 7. (Also-eligible list with auto-filling of scratches.) Excellent idea and already proposed. EE will have to make software changes to implement it but that's not a reason not to make this critically needed change.

    # 8. (Daylight hours closing time.) Good idea IF Suggestion # 7 is used, otherwise don't bother.

    # 9. (Require clubs to report prior years entry numbers.) What is the reason for this? It is more paperwork for clubs, and old numbers are not very useful to predict where entries will be high in a later year because there are many factors that change this from year to year. What is the AKC going to do with this report? It appears to be one of the items that reflects the authors' distrust of the event-hosting clubs and as such it carries the odor of "biting the hand that feeds you."

    # 10. (Require each club to justify limiting entries by "proving its case" to the AKC,) Dump this one pronto. It's arrogantly offensive--a repulsive example of "biting the hand that feeds you." I mean, really, guys; it should have gone on the cutting room floor when you edited the letter.

    # 11. (Double header Masters may not start on the same day.) Delete this one. Whether to do it should be up to the people putting on the test. More event days translates into more grounds fees, bird boy costs, motel costs, meal costs, and on and on, etc. Why make it harder to put on events when what you want is more events?

    # 12. (Make clubs pay AKC a sliding scale of higher fees the more they limit entries.) Whoa, guys. REALLY offensive. Talk about attacking the clubs who are putting on the hunt tests that help you make a living. "Cooler heads" should have edited this one before you hit "send." It is not in your interest to offend the hunt test community that you make your living off of.

    ======================

    Additional Suggestions from the discussion that should be added to the letter, IMO.

    A. Clubs have option to reserve a set number or percentage of slots for the event workers. Workers need to be able to enter or you can't attract workers to make the event go. Fundamental. Such reservation to be published in the premium list and released if not taken by 3 days before closing.

    B. PRTA shall put on 4 hunt tests (1 per time zone) per year, as the PRTA field trial pro's are doing now.

    C. Clubs' discretionary refund policy (for scratches other than death, sick or injured, or in season) can deny refunds for any stake that has filled, while allowing them elsewhere.

    Rig

  7. #37
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    PRTA shall put on 4 hunt tests (1 per time zone) per year, as the PRTA field trial pro's are doing now.

    This might be difficult since the PRTA is mostly FT pros. It appears there are a few HT pros on their member list on website.
    Any reason more HT pros aren't members?
    Tom Dorroh

  8. #38
    Senior Member Patti Benton's Avatar
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    Julie & Rig
    I totally agree on reserving spots for club members. I want to go one further on that item. What is your reserve 20 spots and you have a club member that is a Pro and the Pro takes all the reserved spots? What if the Pro can only enter their personal dogs? I just want it to be fair.

    I do like many of the suggestions.
    Patti

    HRCH UH Benton's Magnum Opus MH WC - Magnum (500 points) September 11, 1994 - May 9, 2007
    HRCH UH Fowl Play's Dust Devil - Dusty (500 points) February 5, 1998 - November 15, 2006
    HRCH UH Benton's Ria of Opus CGC - Ria (1520 points) March 2, 2002 - August 6, 2012 we miss you baby girl
    HRCH CH UR01 Go West Mamma's Last Nerve CGC RN- Emma (525 points and counting)
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti Benton View Post
    Julie & Rig
    I totally agree on reserving spots for club members. I want to go one further on that item. What is your reserve 20 spots and you have a club member that is a Pro and the Pro takes all the reserved spots? What if the Pro can only enter their personal dogs? I just want it to be fair.

    I do like many of the suggestions.
    This one is easy. Ya just tie um up and drive a railroad spike into their forehead- slowly.

    Biting the hand that feeds ain't a good idea regards

    Bubba
    There are three classes of people: those who see...those who see when shown...and those who do not see. - Leonardo da Vinci

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti Benton View Post
    Julie & Rig
    I totally agree on reserving spots for club members. I want to go one further on that item. What is your reserve 20 spots and you have a club member that is a Pro and the Pro takes all the reserved spots? What if the Pro can only enter their personal dogs? I just want it to be fair.

    I do like many of the suggestions.
    Patti,
    I too like the suggestion of reserving spots for the club members who are hosting the test. It would be up to the club to police it though to prevent abuse by the few that would try to take advantage of it.

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