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Thread: (HAPPY EASTER!) Day#1 Swim-By Bank cheat question ???

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Default (HAPPY EASTER!) Day#1 Swim-By Bank cheat question ???

    Happy Easter day everyone !!!

    Started day# 1 on Swim-By with my BLF today, Took her out and planted 8 white bumpers, and established pile on her name, and then on back for the next 2 marks to pile, then started sending on back without marking pile and everything went well for the first 4 or 5 lines, then she started trying to run bank on the send.

    Our pond is not ideal, but it is good enough to get the job done by using one end of the pond.

    I had no problem stopping her, no-no ing her and bringing her back to heel and re-casting, but she continued trying to cheat the bank like she was confused, so I re-marked the pile, sent on back and got good line. Tried again without marking the pile and she tried cheating again ! I tried in-direct pressure by heeling forward toward waters edge, and still got a bank cheat.

    I am trying to leave as much pressure out of the swim-by until I get the pile established, but this is a problem right off the bat!

    She has been through force to pile. t-work- T T, Pattern blinds, and blind drills (Water just warmed up enough to start swim-by) She knows, or at least she should have a general idea of what I am asking her to do, and take a line, But understand this is a total new concept with the water.

    Without swim-by I don't have the tools in the bag to work on water cheating, so how best should I handle this situation ? Simplify and keep marking pile ?, More In-direct pressure ? Stop her and re-heel and use attrition ?

    I could tell she was thinking and working hard to do the right thing, and actually started cheating once, stopped herself and corrected her line, So I know she at least understands to a point of what I am asking, and what she should do!

    At this point in my head I am thinking just continue to mark the pile, simplify, and continue to not let her cheat, and teach her the right way without pressure.

    Any opinions or advice on the best way to handle this ?

    Yes I am following a program, and may add she is a left side heeling dog, and actually turning into me to cheat, and not away if this matters ! Seems to me she would be trying even harder to cheat the bank by doing this.
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    How old is your pup? ? I always like to continue to mark the pile and simplify. I take the cautious road. Get right on the whistle when she reaches the other side and call her back. Make sure you are in the middle of the pond and least likely to cause her to cheat. Eventually it will click in!Good luck to you.JMHO Others will chime in!
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    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    You should be on the edge of the water with her, and the bumpers should be visible and in the water. The choice to get in the water should be no-brainer for the dog.

    Make sure she is focused on the bumpers before you send---if she is eyeing the land route, she is telling you she plans to go that way.
    Renee P

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    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    OH Sorry she is 16 months old almost 17 months

    And actually she is keying in on bumper pile, Cause i make a habit of watching her when lining her up, I guess she figures the bank is faster ? She runs fantastic lines on land, or atleast good lines for a early transition dog working pattern blind fields.

    I am not real concerned with this issue, and know I can fix it, just figured I would ask (for my extra knowledge) what some of you would do to handle this situation.
    Last edited by Mac Lassiter; 04-20-2014 at 12:53 PM.
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

  5. #5
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Lassiter View Post
    OH Sorry she is 16 months old almost 17 months

    And actually she is keying in on bumper pile, Cause i make a habit of watching her when lining her up, I guess she figures the bank is faster ? She runs fantastic lines on land, or atleast good lines for a early transition dog working pattern blind fields.

    I am not real concerned with this issue, and know I can fix it, just figured I would ask (for my extra knowledge) what some of you would do to handle this situation.
    If she is taking the land route, then she is almost certainly glancing back and forth from the pile and the bank. Look at her eyebrows, I bet you see them twitching as she moves her eyes back and forth, even if she is not moving her head.

    Since the dog is running the bank in front of you, the simplest thing is to move up so that she does not have room to do so and to make the choice for her to get in the water more black and white. Or move the bumpers away from the other shore (closer to you) to make running the bank less appealing as one way or another she will have to get in the water to make the retrieve.

    Think about using a heeling stick or your foot to stop her when she makes the wrong choice to run in front of you to take the land route.
    Last edited by mitty; 04-20-2014 at 01:07 PM.
    Renee P

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    Thanks Mitty ! Great advice
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

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    That pup is doing what a dry minded dog does. Water force before attempting swim by. JMO.

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    Senior Member Don Lietzau's Avatar
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    I would lower the "basket ball hoop"
    Maybe change your pond so the dog leaves from a point of land straight across.
    Make the pile out 10 yards, establish the out and return. Then out to 20 yards and so on until the pile is on the far bank.
    I also use a long, light weight check cord, not for the send but to keep the return honest.
    Have fun, It's spring
    Don

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mac Lassiter's Avatar
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    TONY ! How can I water force her if we have not got a pile established ? I am going to Water force her once the pile is established, but I'm not putting pressure on this dog until I know she understands what I am asking, and what here destination is, just can't bring myself to force for the sake of forcing until I know she understands !

    Please elaborate !
    "MAC"
    SHR Mac's Scars To Prove It (Josie)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Lassiter View Post
    TONY ! How can I water force her if we have not got a pile established ? I am going to Water force her once the pile is established, but I'm not putting pressure on this dog until I know she understands what I am asking, and what here destination is, just can't bring myself to force for the sake of forcing until I know she understands !

    Please elaborate !
    My take on the behavior that you have described is that the dog knows that they have to go but does not want to get in the water. It is very common for a dog that is dry minded to run sideways along the bank apprehensively because they are trying to figure out how to get there without getting wet. You have already identified the pile. That is not the problem. Don't move closer to the bank. Back further away and then throw a bumper into the water and enroute force while on land into the water. You should be able to work your way to sending on back with nothing there and then once the dog enters the water throwing it over his head. I'll almost bet that the first time you toss one in the water and give a nick your dog will stop and not get in the water and then you'll know. My advice, leave your wallet and phone in the truck so that if you have to get wet you won't ruin them.

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