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Thread: Casting into the wind

  1. #91
    Senior Member TroyFeeken's Avatar
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    Getting a dog to stop and turn isn't all that tough. Getting a dog to stop, turn, and then hold that cast is an entirely different thread and yet very complementing of the OP's question of casting a dog into the wind.
    Cody's Gunslingin' Cosmonaut MH QAA (Shooter)

  2. #92
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    There you go Doug; in a trial both Clint and Lanse are trying to LINE every blind...Lanse trains with a collar, Clint does not
    Well, of course! In a trial, everyone is trying to line the blind. What's your point?

    I've never seen a dog that lined a blind at a trail and not pick up the bird because it expected to be handled!! However, I've seen several pick ups because their dog wouldn't handle. Even Lanse.

  3. #93
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Good thread, kind of opening my eyes. I have trained with a lot of really good amateurs and some very we'll respected pros over the years. I don't know about every pro, but the two I have spent the most time with do pattern blind drills for every dog on the truck, qual level to mature all age. Most amateurs I know do pattern blinds on their own time. All these people also run a lot of cold blinds, typically two or more a day, depending on time of year, at least one land and one water.

    It never occurred to me that some trainers forgo one or the other. How about a poll for those that do one, the other or both?

  4. #94
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    Ill play John. I do both. As a "general" rule I run more cold blinds.....depends on the dog. Probably 3:1 cold blinds.
    I'm just a low life hunt tester, but I believe a well trained dog is a well trained dog. They don't have a clue what venue they are running.
    Last edited by Dman; 05-02-2014 at 08:41 PM.
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  5. #95
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Main View Post
    Well, of course! In a trial, everyone is trying to line the blind. What's your point?

    I've never seen a dog that lined a blind at a trail and not pick up the bird because it expected to be handled!! However, I've seen several pick ups because their dog wouldn't handle. Even Lanse.
    Believe it or not Doug they arent: One of the things I used to really enjoy as a teen was to stand around and watch the test dog with all the handlers,especially during a blind...half the field would already start commenting on how many whistles the blind would take, then a few would watch the first couple of handlers and how they did,and change their strategy...When I would watch Clint, he would turn around and walk back to the truck and begin his prep for the blind. His philosophy was that he was going to attack the blind based on how he trained his dogs not on how the field was taking on the blind...The only dogs he wanted to watch were those just before him to see of the wind or sun conditions had changed

    Lanse has a completely different pre test routine..He likes to go off and relax and sit in his truck, maybe do a crossword puzzle,call home,listen to messages,and basically relax...He will look at his situation in a trial and that may determine if he will attack the blind or play to not get hurt. IMHO its what makes him such a great tactician, he knows when to gamble and shoot the works, and he knows when a two whistle job will get him called back to the next series..Clint on the other hand knows only one way, he has admittedly thrown away many a trial in his younger day because he would go for lining the blind when a two whistle job would have been just fine

    Again its a philosophical approach, its hard to ask an aggressive handler to play it safe, its also hard to ask a methodical handler to be a little reckless, its just not in their DNA, kinda makes things exciting
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  6. #96
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    I don’t see it as a philosophical issue, but instead see it as a choice and that doesn’t happen overnight. The choices we make happen for a reason despite what others have said. So now the question becomes…Which is right? I believe the team will determine that.

    My penny worth.

  7. #97
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Littlejohn View Post
    Where can I find one of these dogs?
    If you own a dog, you found one. The statement doesn't apply 100% to marking, if that's what you're thinking. It refers to memorizing pictures it sees on a repeated basis. The dog sees a mark once, usually.
    Darrin Greene

  8. #98
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Removing the destination makes other things you might be working on easier for the dog to understand.
    Darrin Greene

  9. #99
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    I'm in the less is more pattern blind camp, especially after introduction to cold blinds.
    But since that puts me in agreement with Gooser I will refrain from further comment as I realize I must be wrong

  10. #100
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    Steve : as I mentioned in my post its more a philosophical stance as opposed to a procedural one .Ted and Gooser respectively come from one camp and I and my brother from another, even Lanse will tell you we differ..its basically a glass half full vs half empty debate, but in this one its a good lining dog vs a good handling dog. I come from the camp that prefers a good lining dog and teach them to handle, the Colorado contingent probably comes from the camp of preferring a good handling dog and teach them to line...

    I believe the first cast is actually when the dog leaves you side,hence my stance on preferring a good lining dog, again that itself can be debated ad nausem or a urinating match..neither is right neither is wrong...
    My dog was taught to line and this has come in handy. We did many lining drills with him as a young dog in HRC teaching. Now he holds an initial line well if I send him correctly. And no collar pressure involved in the teaching. I hate to see some one casting and having difficulty casting their young dog trying to get him to the blind zigzagging across the field nicking their dog. It sometimes can end up in a mess. I am not looking for trouble only success and a confident trusting smart dog to deal with factors. IMO
    I agree with Ted you cannot line those longish blinds but you can get off to a very good start with a good initial line by trying to line it and challenge the line! JMO
    Last edited by Mary Lynn Metras; 05-04-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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