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Thread: Tax & Spend vs Borrow & Spend

  1. #1
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Default Tax & Spend vs Borrow & Spend

    Now we can all agree that all our politicians love to spend money!

    Now what we may not agree on is where they get the money to spend.

    History has shown that democrats want to fund their spending desires by taxing.

    While history has shown that republican like to borrow to fund their spending/tax cuts.

    Now my question is which produces the best outcome for Americans as a whole?

    I ask that you not give me a knew jerk response to this, and you think it through before you answer.

  2. #2
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    I would prefer that they live within their means and control spending. We need a Balanced Budget Amend IMHO to control the idiots.
    Excessive & pork barrel spending funded by tax increases would not violate a Balanced Budget Amendment. The good thing about a balanced Budget Amendment is that it would make it harder for them to pass spending bills and get reelected if they were forced to incorporate tax increases into their spending bills to adequatly fund them

    To focus on your question it would be far greater to pay for their excessive spending on a "pay as you play basis"as we go as opposed to kicking the can down the road via borrowing with its inherent increased interest costs. I believe something like 40% of every tax dollar collected now goes to pay the interest on the national debt. Had these morons practiced fiscal responsibility over the past few decades we could all get the biggest across the board tax cut ever

    Your premise that Reps borrow and Dems fund their excessive spending proposals is however flawed. They are equally as guilty of spending money they don't have.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by menmon View Post
    Now we can all agree that all our politicians love to spend money!

    Now what we may not agree on is where they get the money to spend.

    History has shown that democrats want to fund their spending desires by taxing.

    While history has shown that republican like to borrow to fund their spending/tax cuts.

    Now my question is which produces the best outcome for Americans as a whole?

    I ask that you not give me a knew jerk response to this, and you think it through before you answer
    .
    Neither!

    The Nation should adopt the same laws required of the States calling for a mandatory Balanced Budget.

    Deficit spending harms everyone. Not only does it cheapen the value of the Dollar, it also allows Politicians to waste the people's money on items that have little or no benefit.

    Entire Federal Departments and Agencies can be eliminated. Medicaid needs to be overhauled because to the tremendous amount of abuse and waste. Defense spending should be cut to 300 billion a year, on and on.

    If we don't voluntarily cut spending, is short time we will be forced to and when we are forced to cut, it won't be pretty. Much better to get a grip on spending now.

    Privatization would go a long way towards a Balanced Budget.
    http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/...tization-train
    Last edited by Franco; 04-30-2014 at 09:32 AM.
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    I would like to see the fed audited
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    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    menmon...

    I do not think we can 'all agree' on how Democrats vs. Republicans spend money! So I won't go their.

    But, you left out one big trick that our government uses to generate money. They print it! Which this administration has kept the presses running as fast as they can run, which is part of the cause of why the American dollar's value is slowly dropping. I understand that this is not the only reason for the declining value, but it is inevitable that if you make more cash, the cash you have becomes of less value.

    And yes Franco, I know that Obama is not the first guy to use this for generating money.

    We have to stop printing new money, should only be done to replace damaged cash.

    My answer to your question is that neither taxing nor borrowing produces a good 'economic' outcome for America if you are spending without a budget and/or growing the budget faster than the U. S. Economy. Limiting spending to what is (in the till, tax collections + other earnings) is the first step to economic recovery (balanced budget).

    This will never happen, unless Congress has a directive (law) saying that they must have a budget and stay within that budget. The challenge here is what pain can be incurred if they do not have a budget of if they over spend the budget? Impeachment of all? Government shutdown? I only see two ways to do this....

    ---Vote and throw the bums out all that have not been actively pushing a balance budget!!

    ---Convene State Constitutional Convention via Article V - and Amend the U. S. Constitution with a Balance Budget Requirement!

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    Of the two methods suggested for funding government expenditure taxation is the least harmful to the economy. In order for tax revenues to increase, the economy (or at least the section being subjected to an increase in tax burden) must also expand, a mutual win win.

    With debt the economy must increase as a result of expenditure in order to repay the debt or fiscal calamity will follow.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freezeland View Post
    I would like to see the fed audited
    The fed is auditied annually.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    The Fed audit is reported to their Board Of Governors and kept secret. One of BOG's latest statements basically said that The People didn't need to know what they did with their money. They like operating in secret. It wasn't until 2009 and the pressure by Dr Ron Paul that one audit was made public. That audit revealed the shennagins of the Fed like the nearly 15 TRILLION loaned to foreign banks! Not only has the Fed gradually destroyed the value of the dollar over the last 101 years(fueled by the elimination of the Gold Standard), its has over-reached its authority to the point that our monetary policy is now controlled by international banking which is a direct violation of The Constitution!

    Last edited by Franco; 05-01-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    Go to the US Treasury and you will find the audit.

    Auditing the money and keeping secret are two different things.

  10. #10
    Senior Member menmon's Avatar
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    The point of this post is that we have 2 choices...elect those that believe in taxing to get the funds they believe are necessary or we can elect those that think borrowing to get the funds necessary for their agenda. Neither have a good record of reducing spending therefore from a financial point of view, you should look at this from the lessor of two evils.

    And we can all agree it is always better to spend money you have as opposed to borrowing money.

    Elect me, I'm not going to raise your taxes, I'm going to reduce them. But what they don't tell you is that they will have to borrow money to keep happy those that put them in office.

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