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Thread: Lets talk about HT vs FT

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmm go run them both and see what happens; Main difference is running against other dogs vs. running against a standard. As for needing an HRCH or MH before running a FT, Whelp apples and oranges; It's all about skill set, not titles; a derby dog needs to be able to mark (singles Doubles, I've not see a triple but who knows). A qual dog needs to be able to mark (doubles triples, quad who knows) and run blinds (which are their own separate series). Theoretically best dog there that day takes the prize. The thing about FT is until you try them you just don't know. Varying degrees of difficulty is seen in both venues, but usually you don't need a completely finished MH to run a qual.

    Ex; Our group decided to run a couple of Quals this year (peer-pressure ), 3 dogs are Finished MH-HRCH, (we don't train for FTs, their titled out) they play well, usually in till the end, 1 dog is an SH (transition) level ( also in till the end). Another friend has a 18mt still in derby/SH level (transition work)(her first qual she saw every series).

    on the other hand; I know a few people that have young QAA dogs, they are also in (transition) some run Master-some aren't ready for it yet. Overall the dogs are in need of a bit of seasoning/ they aren't ready to consistently pass every test; but most of the time they play.

    Now if your thinking of wrangling the bull and throwing your hat into Amateur-Open you need a FINISHED and experienced Dog. Figure those that play the FT game and only the FT game every day oftentimes don't see every series. So you need a finished dog, with FT experience and need to be pretty finished and experienced yourself; a bit of luck never hurt .

    I've contemplated throwing my dog into an upper stake, as I did the Qual (just to see); however I'll just never be as into it nor as dedicated as most of those playing that game. I'll never put in the focused training-time required to play well and consistently, if I'm not going to play well and consistently; I don't really see the point. Doesn't mean I won't be conned into trying it
    Who's 18month old dog are you referring too? and if it's mine who evaluated it at SH????
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Some people like competition - see John. They tend to gravitate to FT. Some people do not - see Keith. They tend to gravitate towards HT. As for whether one venue or another has nicer or nastier people, I have meet people from each group that were great, and people from each group that were jerks.
    I would check each venue out and then decide which I preferred. It's all good.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater 7 View Post
    I'm with you. My pup is a little farther than 3 handed cast but not much. I'm not trying to rush into anything. Like I said, I am just curious.

    A couple questions for FT people:


    3.) Once a dog is NFC or just FC/AFC. what do you do with the dogs then?
    Maybe we could get the AKC to create new titles.... FC2, AFC3, etc...
    Bill Davis

  4. #34
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    I think both can be done with the same dog , but it's much easier to transition a FT dog to HT than the other way around, there are a few Good HT pro's that have a knack for acquiring non competitive AA dogs and turning them into solid master national dogs but you rarely hear of a MH dog being picked up by a FT pro and turned into a competitive AA dog, happens but not very often.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Choc24/7's Avatar
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    quick summary that has helped me....it is just a quick briefing to get an idea so go ahead and pick it apart...hahaha

    Hunt Tests (AKC, HRC or NAHRA) are run against a written standard, like playing against par in golf.

    Field Trials (AKC, no HRC/HAHRA field trials) are not run against a standard, they are dog vs. dog, like a golf tournament, you may break par by ten strokes and lose, because another dog did a better job. Field trials have much longer and more technical marks and blinds than hunt tests. They are different animals, although a Q is sometimes compared to a "long bad ass master test." An open or am may have 500 yard marks as multiples. Big dogs only need apply.

    There are 3 organizations that sanction hunt tests, HRC, AKC and NAHRA. I know very little about NAHRA, it is a dieing breed.

    HRC has 3 levels:

    Started: 2 single simple marks on land, 2 single marks on water, delievery to hand not required, dog can be held and not steady. The judges are looking for a "started" level of control (not much but huntable with patience).

    Seasoned: A land double, a water double, a walk up or walk out bird, a diversion bird, a land blind, and a water blind. The marks will be non-techinical and separated by 90 degrees, with the blind outside the marks. The dog must be steady, and deliver to hand, and otherwise show a "seasoned" level of control. The handler shoots a gun at the line.

    Finished: A land triple, a water triple, a land blind, a water blind, one series will have an honor, and one series will have a diversion bird. Dog must be steady, honor, and deliver to hand. The dog must demonstrate a "finished" level of control. Marks can be 150, blinds 100. The handler and the honor dog shoot a gun at the line.

    AKC has 3 levels which roughly correspond with the HRC levels, but are generally more difficult/technical at each level. Your rarely see a shot flyer in HRC (but it does happen) but you can count on one at most AKC tests at each level. In AKC the shots are in the field, and the handler carries a prop gun.

    Junior: 2 single marks on land out to 100 yards, 2 single marks on water, delievery to hand IS required, dog can be held and not steady. Odds are you will get a shot flyer. More cover than you will see in Started. Don't count on your water birds landing in the water, at least not both of them.

    Senior: A land double, a water double, a walk up into one of the tests, a land blind, and a water blind, and an honor. The marks may be little technical, but separated by 90 degrees, with the blind outside the marks. Your blind on Sunday may be the short Master blind from the day before. Be prepared. Odds are you will get a shot flyer, which may be the first bird down. Dog must deliver to hand/honor.

    Master: 3 series: Land, Water, and Land/Water with at least 2 if not 3 being triples. You will have 3 blinds (maybe 4) with at least one being a double blind. You might get a quad for a marking series. You will have a walk up scenario in one series, and a diversion bird or dry pop in one series. You will have an honor in one series. Dog must deliver to hand/honor.

    In HRC, you can talk to your dog while the marks go down, and you release the dog yourself. In AKC, you CANNOT talk to your dog after you signal ready until you are released by the judge. AKC will have callbacks after each series for the dogs still in contention. In HRC you can run the next series even if you are out. Etiquitte is that if you are out in HRC, you ask to run late/last, and not first in the next series.

    I have left out some other details, but that should get you started.

  6. #36
    Member Spring's Avatar
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    I've found it fun trying both HT and FT in my limited experiences and have a pup sleeping by my feet that got his MH and QAA by age 2 yrs and 3 months. He's a pretty good duck dog and morning newspaper retriever, too....
    Last edited by Spring; 05-04-2014 at 08:52 AM.
    SpringHill's Prince Charles MH QAA

  7. #37
    Senior Member Keith Stroyan's Avatar
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    Congratulations "Spring" - good looking, too.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Russ's Avatar
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    One point I did not see mentioned is the difference in the level of commitment necessary between the HT & FC venues, particularly when including all age stakes. I know from personal experience that a consistent MH dog be trained two or three days per week with only only day of decent water. There may be a few exceptions, but competitive field trial dogs are trained 5 to 6 days per week, week in and week out, on a variety of good training grounds.

    The majority of competitive FT dogs are pro trained and migrate to summer and winter grounds. Hunt tests were designed for the weekend warrior. Field trials started as pro dominated sport and still retains, although to a lesser degree, the tradition of its roots.

  9. #39
    Member outdoordave's Avatar
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    Tater, where are you located?
    South Ark Retrievers

  10. #40
    Senior Member Tater 7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoordave View Post
    Tater, where are you located?

    I am located in Auburn, AL. Why?

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